Originally a comment by Der Durchwanderer on Reward.
Indeed, there is an awful lot of armchair generaling and Monday morning quarterbacking going on, not just in this thread but all over, almost all of it from people who have never been placed in mortal peril by another human being and who have no training in self-defense. I freely admit that I have relatively little experience with such peril, and have thus far only had the merest physical training, though I have read fairly extensively on the philosophy of self-defense and had discussions with people who’ve trained much more thoroughly than I have.
The first duty in any altercation where you believe your life or health to be in jeopardy is to retreat and escape. Running should always be your first resort, if it is at all possible to flee.
Failing that, the second duty is to de-escalate, to use any means of rhetoric and persuasion, or simple compliance (e.g., giving up your money or valuables without resistance to a mugger) to convince your assailant to back off or otherwise leave you in peace.
Failing that, the third duty is to intimidate your assailant; to present them with a counter-threat such that, if they are rational, they will think twice before pursuing an attack. This can include brandishing a weapon (with the caveat that you should never, ever, EVER draw a weapon you are not prepared to use), confidently squaring off against the assailant, or screaming and making a racket to intimidate them and hopefully draw some attention from passersby (though in crowded cities almost everyone ignores such rackets).
Failing that, however, your last duty is to survive a physical altercation with someone who is intent to do you harm. This generally means you have to subdue the assailant with overwhelming, sudden, decisive force. Most real physical fights are decided in seconds and by centimetres, with one wrong move dooming one of the participants to defeat.
In a real physical altercation, one can run through this four-part checklist in a fraction of a second. And if you are not being directly threatened yourself but are instead acting on behalf of others, people weaker and more vulnerable than you, retreat and flight become much more complicated still.
Life is not a video game; there are no do-overs, no power rankings or levels, no way to tell with certainty how strong or trained or be-weaponed an assailant is until it is quite probably too late and you wind up with a shank in your gut or a bullet in your skull. There are many martial arts such as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or Aikido which emphasise non-lethal detention of an assailant, but these arts require years of dedicated training to confidently employ.
Neely’s death is a tragedy, as was his life, and Penny is certainly no comic-book superhero. The fact that he is being fêted by the MAGA crowd, who are just using the both of them as cultur-war pawns, is moderately disgusting — Penny is himself just as much a victim of circumstance as was Neely, and I doubt he relishes or revels in having taken a human life…or, at least, I like to think he doesn’t.
Nevertheless, given a sober account of the facts of this case (not unlike a sober account of the facts of the Rittenhouse case a few years back), there is no other conclusion than that Penny acted in a legally (and morally) defensible manner when he intervened in an altercation between a raving lunatic and a terrified mother and child, and the death of the assailant was a tragic contingency of the altercation. It should not have happened, but the chain of causation and culpability stretches a long way back and does not deserve to fall squarely on Penny’s shoulders. Yes, Penny and his fellow intervening passengers might have been able to subdue Neely without killing him, but it is also quite possible that if any of them had relented, at least one of them could be dead. Nobody asked for this tragedy, not even really Neely — or at least, not a Neely who hadn’t been ravaged by homelessness and drugs and despair.
Both Penny and Neely are symptoms of a diseased society which is obviously mouldering from the inside, where technocrats craft algorithms into the future whilst living hand-to-mouth in shoebox apartments that should’ve been condemned decades ago, and walk through streets and ride on trains and buses evermore crowded with the cast-offs of this brave new world.
Yes, people are starting to get sick of mentally-ill homeless people turning their commutes and their recreation into harrowing affairs. They are sick of economists and politicians telling them they live in the best, richest, freest, most democratic societies the world has ever known even as the ostensible governing bodies of those societies seek to impoverish and perhaps even imprison their citizens if they dare to claim otherwise. They are sick of having to pay forty percent of their take-home pay on rent for a squalid tenement in neighbourhoods constantly reeking of human urine, where the likelihood of getting accosted or assaulted by a deranged drug-addict only seems to be going up, and where nobody seems to have any idea how to make any of it better but by God they’ll call you a fascist if you point out that this state of affairs is unacceptable.
Most of these people still consider themselves quite progressive, at least for now, and most of them probably hate Penny and Trump (and Rittenhouse and Musk and Rogan and all the other progresive bug-bears, past and present). But people can only take so much cognitive dissonance, and society can only take so much shrugging disdain for the very concept of order or the rule of law or the social contract. Eventually even these direct victims of the rot of modernity will not be able to square their ideology with the reality they must wade through on a daily basis, and they will demand that something be done.
We had better hope that liberalism can do that something, because we do not want to see what the other guys have in mind.