Another shunning
Remember last summer when things got all sharp and spiky at Freethought blogs so I left there and came back here? After that everything calmed down at FTB and went back to collegial harmony and love.
Hahaha no it didn’t. That’s why we saw the debut of The Orbit on March 15, a new blog formed from a bunch of former FTB ones and some new ones.
It took only three weeks. Three weeks! Even I, who know their way with dissenters so intimately, thought it would take way longer than that. Only three weeks before the first schism: an update to their fundraiser on April 6:
We Made a Mistake, and We Apologize
When The Orbit launched, we offered a number of rewards on our (ongoing) Kickstarter, including Surly-Ramics jewelry. As readers may or may not know, there was controversy two years ago—involving, among others, Surly-Ramics creator Amy Davis Roth—regarding ableist language and responses to criticism. There remains significant disagreement among disability activists about these events: some accepted Amy’s apology and subsequent actions, while others are still dissatisfied with her reaction when criticized. (For details, see the linked post, written by one participant. https://teenskepchick.org/2014/02/17/what-actually-happened-and-a-rough-timeline/)
Many Orbit bloggers, who have different relationships (or lack thereof) with Amy and Surly-Ramics, are ourselves disabled and engaged in disability advocacy to different extents. While some now feel comfortable promoting Amy’s work, others differ, and individual bloggers will continue drawing their own lines. As a network, however, we recognize offering Surly-Ramics was a mistake, both because no consensus existed on our network and because doing so without explanation cast doubt on disability rights’ importance to us. We apologize for that mistake.
While preparing to launch our site, we did a lot of things in a hurry. This decision was made quickly, and we now realize we should have given ourselves more time to reach the fully informed consensus The Orbit aims to operate under. In the absence of this consensus, we are no longer offering the Surly-Ramics through our Kickstarter. Although we remain contractually bound to provide the jewelry to any donors who requested it, Surly-Ramics are now marked “sold out”. In their place, we’re offering poster prints by Orbit blogger and disability activist Ania Bula. (Any existing backers who would rather receive a print as a reward can change their pledge any time before the Kickstarter closes.)
In addition, we’re now examining our decision-making process to stop situations like this from arising in the future and looking at ways to respond to criticism more quickly. While we can’t promise never to make another mistake, we aim to make as few as possible, especially where marginalized people are concerned. We hope anyone hurt by this one can accept our apology, though we recognize they retain the right not to.
So that’s Surly Amy thrown under the bus, and then run over a few times for good luck. That’s Surly Amy’s jewelry thrown back in her face. That’s Surly Amy’s art rejected in favor of that of Ania Bula, which is not (to put it gently) as good. This despite the fact that several of the Orbit people have long been friends of Amy’s, in some cases fairly close friends.
What a horrible set of people.
Marking Surly-Ramics as “sold out” instead of “no longer on offer,” or some such, sounds a tad dishonest to me.
Every single thing must be prioritized over every other single thing. Failure to do so will cast doubt on every single things importance to you.
Criminy! The first effing rule is that you do not shit where you eat.
thebewilderness, that’s right, that’s the first rule.
The second effing rule: Don’t eat your own.
Fricken’ Surly Amy isn’t pure enough for them?! I was going to type “unreal,” but the audaciousness of it is too real with these people. Their zealous righteousness is just despicable. They are disgusting.
From the linked teenskepchick post…
I’m all for being anti-ableist, but isn’t that like saying that being anti-war, or anti-racism or being an MRA is the cornerstone of your feminism? If anything other than feminism is the cornerstone of your feminism, you’re not a feminist. You’re a whatever-your-thing-happens-to-be who is also liberal enough to be down with most feminism as long as a feminist doesn’t stand on your toes.
What upsets me most is The-Orbit’s blatant cultural appropriation from the Khmer Rouge.
I was curious what ‘ableist language’ Amy Davis Roth had used. All I could see is that she once quoted someone (she didn’t write it herself) using the words ‘idiot and ‘stupid”, and then didn’t apologise well enough for some people’s liking when they said that was ableist. That was two years ago, but she’s apparently still a persona non grata for some.
I don’t know how this sort of zealotry is going to be good for anyone in the long run.
@#1 Bernard:
That may actually be a limitation of the Kickstarter interface itself, but I dunno.
Maybe trying to rule by consensus in a group with diverse interests/motivations is a big mistake? Garbage in, garbage out…
Not pure enough, not a longstanding enough friend, not generous enough with her time and art enough, not anything enough, apparently.
(She donates art for good causes at the drop of a hat. I’m betting she was giving The Orbit a hefty discount.)
Oh, for crying in the sink, how incredibly stu-…wait.
Really, this move is truly idio-…DARN IT!
What a bunch of self-important imbe-…AAAARRRRGGGHHH!
Can I say “dorkweasels”? Is “dorkweasels” okay?
Hell no! That would imply that the person has a dick that resembles a weasel. That has to be either ablest and/or discriminatory against weasels (what harm have those cute balls of fur ever done). It’s also exclusionary against those who don’t have dicks and shaming of those who used to and now don’t.
‘Dork’ is the same as ‘dick’ now?
… I’m never, ever going to get this stuff straight, am I?
… Hang on, is saying ‘straight’ homophobic?!
*sigh*
Fine, fine, then, tell me, please, which of the following is an acceptable pejorative:
boogerbrain
barfbreath
doodoohead
knock-kneed dingleberry
Ted Cruz
scab-encrusted son of a sea cook
pea-stained Semiotext(e)
tigger, haha no, dork is not dick, at least not in the US.
So when you write about taking walks with Cooper isn’t that being ableist to paraplegics, agoraphobics, and people with dog and other allergies?
Ted Cruz happens to be a VERY INTELLIGENT MAN. Evil, and sharp as a knife.
So that’s an excellent pejorative.
Mike – you forgot cats! It’s a frank insult to cats, despite my lifelong love of cats.
Somehow I think the crowd in question in this discussion might not take too kindly to my beginning a reply to one of their posts with, “Senator Cruz, I find your arguments overly tribal, and likely to lead to a schisming of this great Republican Party, just when it is poised to do some of its greatest work for the American people, and the world.”
Yeah, not sure that would go over too well. Or maybe it would simply waft aloft above their heads. Dunno.
@clamboy, I detect a note of humor in your comments.
Clearly you are not taking things seriously enough. You must check your privilege, then issue a public apology that demonstrates you’ve fully comprehended the error of your ways. If the apology is servile enough, we may accept it, though of course you realize we retain the right not to.
If there is absolute consensus regarding the acceptability of your apology, why then after a mere three hours in the stocks you’ll be Pure again!
/s
.
Poltroon? Ignominious utensil? (Stolen from Aphra Behn’s The Emperor of the Moon.)
Dork has been used to mean dick in the US, though typically only as an acceptable alternative for broadcast television.
One has to wonder how long it’s going to take them to realize a few fundamental realities about the world. Like how it’s impossible to please everyone, and how perfect saints who do no wrong are as boring as hell. Or that tossing a good person and a friend under the bus because of some lofty ideal that they don’t attain to your satisfaction is the mark of a shitty, immature person (and a bad friend).
Oh shit (wait can I say shit without insulting colostomies?) I did forget to mentions cats in a post on the Internet. I apologize if anyone was offended by my violence. OK I have to go back to watching hockey now.
1. Step away from the cats. Anyone who insults cats will get what’s coming for them (probably from a cat).
2. I’m not expert on Etymology, but as I understand it one of the roots of Dork is Dick, probably originally as a simple twist of the word to make it a socially more acceptable thing to say in public (the ’60s were a kinder gentler time – I’m told). I’ve certainly experienced the word used in that sense although interestingly the pejorative sense seems to have been somewhat softened in recent times along with geek and nerd. A reclaiming of sorts?
3. The cats are watching you. Right. Now.
I have to say – this is the best blog I ever read, and the only comment section – the level of humor and wit in the comments section somehow manages to entertain and amuse without the need to “stick porcupines” in people’s orifices or call them nasty names (even when disagreeing).
That said, I need to add – if anyone insults cats again, my ghost cat, Lucy, will come and haunt them forever and ever! She will not be ignored!
https://youtu.be/NrDVsprWRCQ
Evilphobia!!! #EvilRights #NotAllEvilPeople #JeSuisMauvais
Dork DOES mean dick, literally. It mean a whale’s phallus before it was ever used to describe a person.
I dunno iknklast, B&W doesn’t have Modusoperandi…
Are they still around? Haven’t seen them on the few occasions I’ve loitered at FTB in recent weeks. Very witty though.
@Rob
MO still comments on Ed Brayton’s blog, but as you know Ed’s moved to Patheos.
Anyone hurt, that is, other than Amy.
The tone of that statement is nasty, even if one accepts Amy’s ‘guilt’ (I, for the record, don’t). It’s all about saying “don’t blame us, we just made a mistake, blame Amy” without allowing Amy the same courtesy. The “contractually bound” part seems especially nasty to me, as though they’re afraid of being contaminated.
I found nothing wrong with the valentine’s post Amy and Elise wrote. Words like “stupid” can certainly hurt people and we should take care with their use, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t use them at all. Rebecca explained that very well in her response to the incident here: https://skepchick.org/2014/02/insults-slurs-and-stupidity/
Incidentally, the author of the linked Teen Skepchic post accused Rebecca and others of arguing disingenuously and using straw arguments, but then goes on to do exactly that. This part particularly annoyed me –
What the author quoted from Rebecca:
It was argued that Rebecca was mocking people so triggered. But here’s the quote in context:
Rather changes the tone, doesn’t it?
For a slight that occurred two years ago for fuck sake.
Reminds me of that recent Kate Smurthwaite debacle, in which some small-minded shit booked all of her (free!) tickets so as to prevent other people getting a seat.
#9
Yes, at some point a person has to realise that a word that impugns a trait such as intellect has, at some point in the past, been used to …impugn someone for that trait. Amazing, I know. Words like ‘retard’ are still uncomfortably close to the demographic they were coined to describe, even if it was a perfectly neutral medical word originally, and so I can understand that one being shunned as ableist.
But ‘stupid’? Goddammit these people don’t even know how language works. ANY word decribing a thing for which a person might be antagonised, such as ‘retard’ to describe those with intellectual difficulties, will inevitably pick up negative connotations purely as a result of association with the undesirable trait. Throwing that word out as tainted and coining another simply means the new term will go through the same process: the new word will also become tainted, and another and another and another coined in succession.
The euphamism crawl. A natural product of any organic language, yet to insist that an old meaning of a word always determines the current meaning of the word is to commit ignore the fact that common use (and spelling and pronounciation) change over time; the etymological fallacy. So, we can reasonably avoid lots of words that are currently (or somewhat recently) used to denigrate a demographic, be it race, mental ability, phyisical ability and so on.
Calling someone ‘retarded’ is certainly an example of being too close to the earlier association… but ‘stupid’? Fuck that. Sure, it used to mean “mentally slow” …in the 16th century. I feel we can safely dispense with that origin, and declare it baggage-free.
(Worse yet are those that declare ‘stupid’ off limits on the basis that it is always bad to impugn the intellect / judgement / power of reasoning of another person… those people are fucking idiots.)
Oops… feel free to ignore the word ‘commit’ in the above; it was supposed to be deleted.
#29
Yes, it is very evident that the word ‘triggered’ has been watered down through overuse. To be triggered once meant that a certain event prompted a flashback or other anxiety episode, now it simply means ‘I heard or read something I that I didn’t like and now I’m annoyed at it.’
The people harmed by this silliness are of course those that are actually triggered (as in, the full anxiety attack meaning, as used by actual psychiatrists), in much the same way that the ‘gluten free’ trendy shit has accidentally made the actual gluten-intolerant people something of a laughing stock.
I clicked through and saw a few ironies.
The Teen Skepchick who wrote up the indictment of Amy used the word “lame” in that very indictment. Expected to be given a pass for her ableism with a simple apology; refused to give Amy the same courtesy. Said it was because Amy left the offending post up; exonerated herself for leaving up her offending comment.
I get why calling a non-mentally-handicapped person “retard” is bad, as is calling anyone that pejoratively. Just like calling a male “girl,” or calling anyone that pejoratively. Same with the C-word or the D-word.
What I’ve not figured out is what options this leaves us for talking about, say, Trump supporters, who lack the mental acuity to figure out that the wall would cost over $20 billion, that the “trade deficit” isn’t a pot of money sitting around for the government to shell out for things, that tariffs require a repeal of NAFTA, have economic consequences, and are ultimately passed on to the American consumer, and that a wall doesn’t stop people from overstaying their visas. Is there a way to chide them for their incompetence at thinky skills without offending people who are biologically challenged with mental limitations? Is there a way to chide them for failing to ground their thinking in actual reality without calling them “delusional” and so offending the mentally ill?
Or is it ableism to do anything but pretend that Trump supporters are both intelligent and rational?
(Cackles ruefully at Chris/appropriating the Khmer Rouge…)
… which, I think, I would find funnier still, were it actually satire…
Okay. Still funny. In a painful ‘yes, it really gets like this in real life’ way. Or maybe I’m just irritated because I’m not sure I _can_ satirize this…
… Now, were I really cynical, I’d be opening up a pool for ‘how many more shunnings do you predict they will have in the next year’ thing…
Oh. Wait. I am. Put me down for three. Winner gets Surlyramics swag.
I’ve always kinda seen artists other than prose writers* as canaries in the cultural coal mine. Or maybe something a little past canaries. They come for the people who make pottery, the canaries are probably already a bit mummified.
(*Poets and painters and anyone unlikely to be much about essays, really; as certain writers can be so much more explicitly aligned or not with an ethos I figure it’s a different story. Some of those, I guess, are more likely to be early warning canaries.)
‘Stupid,’ like ‘languid’ describes a state. That of being in a stupor or languor.
A smart person who accepts a drink from Bill Cosby may be ‘stupefied’ in short order. Or, for that matter, someone whose brain has been infected with the Purity Policing that’s wrecking the blogosphere.
@13
According to google: Dork
noun
informal
a dull, slow-witted, or socially inept person.
NORTH AMERICAN vulgar slang
the penis.
I stand corrected about “dork.”
iknklast @ 23 about the comments – right?! That’s how I know I’m not as Wrong&Evil as They say I am.
latsot @ 29
Yes, the tone of it is horrible. It sounds like Stephanie Zvan to me, with maybe an assist from Alex Gabriel. Stephanie used to be tight with Amy. Salty Current described Stephanie very aptly last summer as someone who never saw a public denunciation she didn’t want to join. I would update that with “especially a public denunciation of a friend.”
If the other Orbiters think they’re safe from her, they’re in for a rude awakening.
It sounded like Stephanie Zvan to me, too. I detected a bit of Greta in there as well, but that was probably just my own supposedly hurt feelings.
As for Amy, the suggestion that she’s not on the side of good is crazy; another word we probably ought to be allowed to use to describe things that don’t make sense. Amy puts more time, energy and creativity into the causes of skepticism, science and atheism than most of us do.
If/when I ever get back to running my own blogthing, I think I’m gonna do a weekly shunning.
(Probably been done, sure. But mine will be shunnier.)
I am thankful to all my dutiful comrades for exposing the error of my ways. I am guilty of using the word “dork” in the pejorative “dorkweasel.” I realize now that I should have used a portmanteau along the lines of “spitweasel,” or “skunkpoo,” or “Ted Cruz.” My abject apology is worthless, I know, and in two years I will humbly accept any further shunning that may come my way.
Re ‘…a portmanteau along the lines of “spitweasel,” or “skunkpoo,” or “Ted Cruz…”‘
Oh, great. _Now_ you’ve done it. The mustelid-Americans are _really_ gonna raise a stink…
(Claps hand to mouth…)
I mean… Erm…
Oh dear. I should probably rephrase…
Stop badgering me, AJ Milne! You otter be ashamed of yourself! It’s time we work together to ferret out all the polecats in our midst!
You two are just fishering for trouble.
So I confess to grepping around for more material for potential mustelid puns. I’m sure the thread will be terribly disappointed I came up dry.
But now I know:
. skunks haven’t been considered mustelids since genetic work published in 1997, and
. ferret ‘war dances’ are impossibly cute.
(And I kinda want a ferret now, but probably have enough small carnivores around already.)
I have a weird interest in mustelids too, Andrew. I’m not quite sure why, except I think when I was a zookeeper I learned that one needs to be especially cautious around them, as they’re pretty much all very bitey and fierce, including the ones that look cute to the innocent observer.
I’d figure. Small mammalian carnivores generally do seem to have a high bite to mass ratio.
My children have requested many diversions thorough pet stores when near one, over the years, but as this is rarely in the crepuscular window, I’ve seen lots of ferrets, but they’re generally sleeping.
To Lady Mondegreen @29: And the best that came from that is that Modus met Holytape.