Did the Angel Gabriel say anything about hanging up a big sock?
The Huffington Post asked 15 atheists some silly questions about Christmas, and there are a few amusing bits in the answers.
They put Dawkins at the top, of course, and what’s amusing about his answers is how in tune with his Twitter persona they are. It’s as if he thinks he’s been asked to perform “impatient” for a game of charades.
What does Christmas mean to you?
Unlike many a false caricature of an atheist, I have no problem with Christmas and no desire to rain on the Christian parade. I enjoy Christmas carols, especially when sung by a great choir like that of New College, Oxford, or King’s College, Cambridge. But only real carols about Jesus, NOT fake carols about Santa or reindeer or the loathsome “Jingle Bells”.
So he’s being grouchy about how carols should be about Jesus, god damn it, not bells or reindeer.
What do you do on the day?
People’s stories of how they spend Christmas are never interesting. Who cares when they open their stockings or when they carve the unfortunate turkey?
Oookay.
Would you go to church if family or friends wanted you to?
Yes. As a matter of courtesy if it means a lot to them, since it means nothing at all to me other than a little wasted time.
Of course, if he did go, he would be prone to angry outbursts every few minutes.
It’s amusing that Peter Tatchell is more militant on that point than Dawkins is.
What does Christmas mean to you?
Not being a Christian, it’s just a holiday period; a chance to have good meals with friends, watch films on TV and start preparing my next human rights campaign.
Do you celebrate it despite being atheist?
No. That would be hypocrisy and a form of mental schism.
Can an atheist celebrate Christmas and remain true to their own beliefs?
An atheist can make their Christmas a non-religious celebration but cannot, in good conscience, join in the religious elements.
Would you/do you attend church on Christmas if family or friends wanted you to?
No.
Short and to the point.
They saved the best for last, which is Kate Smurthwaite.
Do you celebrate it?
Yes. Of course. I celebrate whatever the hell I like. It’s religions that tell people what they can and can’t do – not atheism. If I want to go to church, then mosque, then temple, I can. I can do what I like.
That’s a key point you know. Religions have arbitrary taboos, atheism doesn’t. The second option is the better one.
Do you see the event as still primarily celebrating Jesus’ birth? Or is it more of a commercial event?
It’s a pagan festival. Yule. It long predates Jesus. Aside from the name there’s almost nothing about Christmas that has anything to do with Christianity. Did the wise men bring a partridge in a pear tree? Did the Angel Gabriel say anything about hanging up a big sock? But it’s ok Christians, us godless heathens warmly welcome you to celebrate our festival with us…
We’re good that way.
Smurthwaite summed it up about the way I feel about it. My husband and I love giving each other presents; we accept any occasion to do so, while feeling free to reject any additional meaning if we wish. My husband used to go to midnight mass; I never joined him. I don’t like being in church, partially because I find ritual creepy (I feel the same way at sporting events, and when an entire audience gives a standing ovation at a play because one guy stood up). People can celebrate whatever they like, whenever they like, and it doesn’t make them a hypocrite. What would make me a hypocrite is to celebrate the birthday of someone I don’t believe in just to have a fun day; I can have a fun day just for no good reason anytime I want. So I don’t claim any of it has anything to do with babies, mangers, stars, or silly virgin birth stories.
You are in my head! Those are my reactions too – I won’t go to church because I would find it creepy, I detest the local [US] football mania, and it drives me crazy that the standing ovation has become obligatory.
On the other hand I have zero quarrel with feasting, music, pretty lights, revelry, etc.
Dawkins displayed his pompous twittitude.
Tatchel got a little self-promotion in between his tut-tutting.
Kate Smurthwaite was spot-on.
Kate is like that.
Dawkins’ class consciousness made me laugh. He managed to work Oxford, Cambridge, and cricket on the village green into his brief replies, plus a dig at those grubby shopkeepers.
Jolly good show, old boy.
Ha! Well spotted. I did notice and laugh at the Oxbridge namecheck, but missed the rest of it.
Totally with Smurthwaite. No rules. Trees, presents, and if I enjoy old English religious Xmas carols for the music I CAN. They may be religious but so what? It’s a myth; songs are nearly always fiction.
Of course atheists can celebrate Christmas, it’s basically the Roman Saturnalia/ Unconquered Sun festival after all. How many people in the West actually celebrate a ‘Christian’ Christmas these days or are devout pagans?
As far as I can tell I’ve never thought of it as Christian – despite the fact that my mother liked to go to midnight mass on Xmas eve when I was little, and the fact that my private school did a churchy little ceremony just before the Xmas break. To me that was just noise. The guts of it was all secular. And that was childhood; in adulthood it’s never had the faintest whiff of the goddy. It’s the SOLSTICE I tells ya.
In York on the solstice we have a little parade, with flags, music, medieval soldiers and the civic party, in which we open the gates of the city, the marketplace and the Minster for the 12 days of Yule, then the dignitaries adjourn to the Mansion House for a medieval feast and the rest of us find a pub.
http://calendarcustoms.com/articles/york-sheriffs-riding/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf6A2OdfLPU
You’re in York? I hope all’s well with you.
What Christmas means to me: Renewal. We’ve agreed as a society that this is a time to share light, hope, and kindness, and to reconnect with our communities.
Do I celebrate it? You’d better believe it! We love Christmas in this house.
Can an atheist celebrate Christmas and remain true to their beliefs: Don’t let the name of the holiday fool you. Like I said in my answer to the first question, what it means to me is a celebration of some fundamental human values. You can also sing carols or have up a nativity scene in the same way that an adult without children can sing about Santa and have elf ornaments– it’s make-believe trappings that dress up the holiday, like the heart that’s a symbol of Valentine’s Day but doesn’t look anything like a human heart or brain (the actual organ of romance), or a Halloween zombie.
Would I attend church if requested? No.. My time would be better spent making things nice for others when they return. I would find it boring and annoying and who wants to be around someone bored and annoyed?
I unfortunately had to leave York in September to start a new job elsewhere. The city’s flooded twice since I left. Haven’t heard anything from anyone except a couple of emails from the university offering temporary shelter to anyone who needed it. I’m back for a visit on the 8th, will see how things are then.
At least I can go to B&W if I don’t want to hear the opinions of Richard Daw…oh, OK then.
I went to see the school presentation at my little neice’s school. A lot churchy for my taste but very nice to hear the little uns singing.
The thing is, while they got to sing what you might term the happy clappy stuff we had to have a go at more traditional carols. I’d forgotten how weird they are once you get past the three lines everybody knows – “Lo he abhors not the Virgin’s womb” indeed.
It’s also odd that people writing stuff to praise their Lord didn’t spend a bit more time trying to make it rhyme, …or scan … or be just be possible to sing at all really.
“I can do what I like.”
Damn right. Fuck the police.
Yep, I’m an atheist living in a mostly atheist household (me and Mr S pls Ms S jr definite atheists, Mr S jr, the philosophy undergrad. will only admit to agnosticism…) All my friends are atheist or agnostic and we live in a very muticultural area of one of the UK’s major multicultural cities. We celebrate the *shit* out of Xmas. Tree, decorations, Xmas songs, booze in large quantitities starting with Bucks Fizz (cheap fizz, not champagne) at breakfast and continuing till we pour ourselves into bed, food in large quantities – often a decent charity donation to try to counterbalance the rampant self-indulgence – presents, sitting up to the table with friends.
None of this is specific to Christmas. It has as much in common with the pre-christian solstice/samhain celebrations as it does with Christianity (and we all know why). Would I go to church? Well, if it meant a lot to somebody I was staying with I probably would. Otherwise no for the simple reason that whenever I’ve attended a church service I’ve been bored to tears. I’d rather have a lie in. Or prepare Xmas food to be ready for when the church attendees get back.
Sometimes Dawkins Grumpy Old Manness is amusing. Mostly it’s not.
Spouse Eamon joined the choir at Carleton U, and they had a concert in early December without a single Christmas song, secular or sacred!
However, my family did spend Dec 25th celebrating the birth of a very special baby boy – my younger son was turning 29 (for the first time).
And around these parts it’s so dark for so long at this time of year, so why not put up lights, and celebrate now that the days have started getting almost imperceptibly longer. And, though it was 16C on the 24th, the temperature has now properly plunged, and we have finally got a respectable dump of 20cm of snow.
Reason’s Greetings to all!
Absolutely right, Kate. As ever you are spot on. Us atheists can have fun whenever we like!
I think Dawkins’ responses were sharp and at least as humorous as Smurthwaite’s. Who really gives a toss about what order people do things in on Christmas Day?!