Review of Science and Religion: A Very Short Introduction
[References to Dixon’s book are to location numbers in the Kindle edition. There are 2548 locations in the book, so those using the print edition should be able to access the general page vicinity of the quote based on the percentage of the book traversed at the location number indicated. This, by the way, raises a question for publishers of ebooks. They should include page numbers for the sake of scholarly reference.]
This is a worryingly confusing and confused book, as I shall try to show in detail. It purports to be a very short introduction to a field of academic study, and yet it does not really address the question of whether or not there is such a field. The existence of journals or even university departments of ‘Science and Religion’ is not sufficient to establish the existence of academic specialities. No doubt, from the religious point of view, the problem of relating science and religion is pressing, since religion is multiply challenged by science and scientific methodology. However, from the scientific point of view this is not only not a pressing issue, it is not an issue at all. What may be an issue is the continuing attempt by religionists to claim a relationship between science and religion, an attempt to harmonise religion with science, and to accommodate science to religion. But this cultural struggle is not a scientific concern, except insofar as it interferes with the proper function of the sciences; the pretence that it is, and that there are meaningful parallels between science and religion, is the entire burden of this book. In my view the case is simply not made.
Let’s get the first misunderstanding out of the way. Despite its comprehensive overthrow by the Enlightenment – what Jonathan Israel calls “theology’s loss of hegemony in the eighteenth century” (Israel, Jonathan. Enlightenment Contested (Oxford: University Press, 2006), 68) – religion still has a disproportionate footprint in the public sphere, even in places where the Enlightenment originated and flourished. Counter-Enlightenment forces were very effective in preserving the structures of ecclesial power that existed in Europe and in societies whose majority populations derive from European immigration. Religious belief itself made successive accommodations to scientific discoveries and the liberal, democratic political arrangements that originated in foundational philosophical works of the Enlightenment. These continued accommodations were in the nature of a steady retreat of religion and theology in the face of the growing success of science in producing reliable descriptions of the natural and human world. The liberal face of religion, thus revealed, acknowledged these successes, yet the heart of religion remained obdurate and unmoved. The forces which kept religions united and effective, as religions, were the beliefs which had been subverted by science. Surrounded by the protective glacis of liberalism, these beliefs were the citadel, without whose existence religion as religion would have simply perished.
This is why, when churches consult together, they still, even in the midst of the bitterest disagreements, claim to be seeking God’s will, and carrying out God’s plan for them. Though there is no conceivable basis for speaking of God’s will in regard, say, to specific questions such as the acceptance or rejection of homosexuality, or the ordination of women, continuing as a religion means that such speech must be privileged. In non-religious contexts such disagreements would be about matters of fact, or about disagreements regarding ethical principles which are, at least in principle, resolvable. In religious contexts the assumption is that there is one correct answer to the questions in dispute, and that God knows that answer. The task of the religious is, in humility, to seek to know God’s will, and when found, to submit, in humility, obediently to it. Yet there is no conceivable way of resolving the issues in dispute, if that is what they are. We will come to the question of revelation in due course, but it is clear that where claims are made to revelation, they are always to sources which are unquestionably human and fallible, and, moreover, open to interpretation. There is simply no way that this problem of sources and authority can be solved, except, of course, by main force. So, the simple truth is that religion’s continued prominence cannot underwrite religion’s claim to epistemic respectability. And yet it is almost entirely upon this that its claim to relationship with science is based. There is no sound epistemological basis for relating religion and science. If religionists wish to form a bastardised academic speciality it should be called ‘Religion and Science’, not ‘Science and Religion’. But it cannot be a field of knowledge for the simple reason that theology is not one.
That may seem an unpromising point from which to consider Dixon’s book, but it is, after all, not so unreasonable as it seems, for Dixon raises the issue of authoritative sources of knowledge without addressing any of the problems associated with the idea of authoritative knowledge. Religion, throughout the book, is merely assumed to produce knowledge. The bona fides of this purported knowledge and its sources are nowhere examined. However, clearly, to show that there is a substantive or meaningful relationship between religion and science, some epistemological work must be done. Dixon, however, never raises the question at all – not once. Yet he makes it clear that the “field” of Science and Religion is about harmonising science and religion. He says, for example:
Academic work by scientists and theologians seeking to develop a harmonious interdisciplinary dialogue has been supported by a range of institutions, including the Roman Catholic Church, through the work of the Vatican Observatory, and also the John Templeton Foundation in America – a philanthropic organization particularly committed to supporting research that harmonizes science with religion. (411–14 [italics added])
Earlier he had remarked that “The goal of a constructive and collaborative dialogue between science and religion has been endorsed by many Jews, Christians, and Muslims in the modern world.” (248) The reader will have noticed a trend. The relationship between religion and science is being sought by religions, not by scientists. The decision has already been made. The Templeton Foundation supports research harmonising religion with science. (Notice how different it sounds when you turn it around like this, and put the word ‘religion’ first.) The idea of constructive and collaborative dialogue is an odd one in this context. How would scientists and religions collaborate, and what constructive contributions can religion make to the work of scientists? Those questions are never asked and therefore never answered in the course of this book.
This leaves a difficult question. If the supposed constructive and collaborative dialogue is not what the field of Religion and Science is all about, what is it about? The answer to that question is unclear. So far as I can tell it is not really about anything in particular. It raises a lot of questions that are raised for religion by the growth of science, but there is no obvious or consistent relationship between the questions that are thus raised. Certainly, if Dixon’s book is a fair introduction to the “subject”, as he claims it is, then at least this reader came away wondering what “subject” the book was really about. At no point, for instance, are any epistemological issues raised which show some relationship between scientific knowledge and religious belief. Dixon does tell us at one point that “[s]cience is unable to tell us why there is something rather than nothing.” ( 888–89) Clearly, Stephen Hawking would disagree (see Hawking and Mlodinow, The Grand Design (New York: Bantam Books, 2010). But even if it should turn out that Hawking is wrong about this, it is still not obvious that religion can do this either. Religions can certainly tell us what they believe to be true, but they cannot produce good reasons for thinking that they are right.
The truth seems to be that the principal subject matter of the supposed “field” of Religion and Science is to call into question the claim that some religious believers think has been made, namely, that, to use Dixon’s words, there is “an inevitable conflict between science and religion.” ( 236) It is worth saying at the outset that there is really very little question about conflict between science and religion, and the claim that there is such conflict is quickly shown by, to take but one example, the religious insistence that creationism should be taught along with evolutionary biology in the science classroom. However, the idea that there is an inevitable conflict is a different claim altogether, and one that has seldom been made. In general, science and religion do not conflict, because science deals with knowledge of the world, and religion does not deal with knowledge. Conflict arises only at those points where there is disagreement between the findings of science and the deliverances of supposed religious revelations. Where religion has not spoken – for example, with respect to theoretical entities like quarks and leptons – there is no occasion for conflict, because religion is simply silent about such things. So, in general, the task of Dixon’s “academic field” of Science and Religion is to show that there is some kind of harmony between religious claims, based upon revelation, or the authority of churches and other religious bodies to define what will constitute reality for them, and those scientific issues which seem to be in conflict with those claims.
Accordingly, the emphasis is placed just where one would expect to find it, on historical instances where it seems that there has been conflict between the growing epistemological confidence of science and the authoritative pronouncements of religious authorities. Two notable examples of this conflict are the condemnation of Galileo in 1633, and the religious response, often though not invariably negative, to Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution. Clearly, there was deep conflict in both cases, especially in the case of Galileo, who was not only threatened by the Inquisition with torture, but was also actually forced to recant, assigned penitential discipline, and placed under house arrest for the rest of his life. Yet the new “discipline” of Science and Religion holds that this was all a misunderstanding of the complex issues involved at the time. It follows that, in reality – if scholars in the “field” of science and religion are right – when the Vatican, in 1992, apologised for the condemnation of Galileo, they need have done no such thing, since the condemnation had nothing to do with a conflict between religion and science, which is simply based on a misunderstanding of the complex relationships between science and religion.
The question, for Dixon, seems to be about the kind of conflict involved. There obviously was conflict, because someone ended up being punished. But was it a conflict between religion and science? According to Dixon, who suggests that he is giving us the tools to take an even-handed, dispassionate approach to the question, it was not a conflict between science and religion at all. As he says:
The only thing to avoid is too narrow an idea of the kinds of conflicts one might expect to find between science and religion. The story is not always one of a heroic and open-minded scientist clashing with a reactionary and bigoted church. ( 252–4)
So, how would Dixon describe the conflict between Galileo and the church, if not as a conflict between science and religion? Now, this is where Dixon’s discussion becomes very murky. Instead of coming right out and saying what kind of conflict he thinks is involved he becomes all “philosophical” and wiggly. His aim, as he says, is
… to look historically at how we came to think as we do about science and religion, to explore philosophically what preconceptions about knowledge are involved, and to reflect on the political and ethical questions that often set the unspoken agenda for these intellectual debates. ( 271–73)
But there is a basic misunderstanding here. Dixon wants to dissolve the science-religion conflict into its political and ethical dimensions, as well as to show some kind of weak parallel between supposedly religious “ways of knowing” and scientific ways of knowing, between religious authority and the authority of science. And this is where Dixon’s discussion becomes hopelessly confused.
For example, he suggests that there is a parallel between religious ways of responding to the night sky and scientific ways of doing the same thing. The point that he is trying to make is that both science and religion do violence to what we perceive by our senses. For example, science tells us that the solid objects around us are constituted mainly of empty space and the forces between “particles” (and we put the word ‘particles’ in scare quotes, because Dixon wants to allow for both realism about the entities of physics and anti-realism or instrumentalism). But we must ask: In what way is this to do violence to our senses? Part of what physics does, whether we are realists or anti-realists about the theoretical particles of physics, is to explain why things appear to our senses in the way that they do. The very complex theories that help to explain this show that, in order to come up with reliable explanations, we cannot simply take what appears to us as the end product of explanation. We have to do complex research and experimentation in order to distinguish reliable theories from unreliable ones – or in epistemological terms to distinguish what is true from what is false.
For instance, Galileo did some very simple experiments with mass and motion, and concluded that what we think will happen – that heavy objects will fall faster than lighter ones – is mistaken. But this doesn’t do violence to our senses. It gives us a more precise description of what we can verify by means of our senses. Same with his telescope. By seeing the moons of Jupiter, he completely overturned what appears to be the common-sense account of the universe, that the earth is at the centre of things and everything revolves around the earth. But everything doesn’t. Some things revolve around Jupiter.
Now see how this fits in with Dixon’s idea of the relationship between science and religion. Science, he says, is mediated by a tradition of inquiry, a tradition of authority. But religion is just the same. It is mediated by tradition too. So, when the scientist looks at the night sky, and gives an account of it, he or she is doing the same thing that is done by the religious person, only the conclusions that they arrive at are mediated by different traditions. Take what Dixon says about the religious person’s response to the night sky.
In the religious case, what intevenes between the light hitting your retina and your thoughts about the glory of God is the lengthy history of a particular sacred text, and its reading and interpretation within a succession of human communities. … Religious teachers, as much as scientific ones, try to show their pupils that there is an unseen world behind the observed one. ( 327–30)
He prefaces this astonishing remark with the claim that “[i]ndividual religious experiences, like modern scientific observations, are made possible by long processes of human collaboration in a shared quest for understanding.” ( 326–7) But this is simply a false equivalence. We are not talking about unseen worlds. We are talking, when we are talking about science, about something which explains why we see what we do. The long process of human collaboration, in the case of religion, contributes nothing to this. It is only dubiously called a “quest for understanding” at all. Understanding what? is the question that springs immediately to mind, and Dixon has no answer. Certainly, it has nothing to do with unseen worlds.
The world that science seeks to explain is not unseen at all. It’s the one that we live in. The unseen worlds of religion have no comprehensible relationship to the world of the senses. Religious “explanation” has no relationship to scientific explanation. We know this, because religion doesn’t explain the world. In fact, religion exists within a multitude of conflicting traditions of interpretation, all with their own incompatible stories of how the world came to be, and how we came to be in the world.
Dixon says that the strategy of the “field” of Science and Religion is, first, “to replace the overarching image of conflict with that of complexity, and to put emphasis on the very different ways that science-religion interactions have developed” (Dixon, 2008, 333-34) in different times and places, local circumstances, and even national differences. And then he goes on to suggest that, though there are real conflicts, the conflicts are really political, not between science and religion at all. For example, in the United States, the conflict between science and religion is really a conflict over who should control “the educational agenda” (350), and not a conflict between religion and science in any ordinary sense. But of course, while it is true that science-religion conflicts almost always have a political dimension, this doesn’t diminish the sense in which it is really science and religion which are in conflict.
There is almost a sense of passing through the looking glass in the Dixon’s discussion of science-religion conflicts. For example, he speaks, in defence of the fact that the science-religion conflict is really political, of “… the recent development of ‘science and religion’ as an academic field in its own right,” (402) as though the existence of this “field” raises no questions. And then he immediately speaks of “the relationship between natural knowledge and revelation,” (403) as if this is simply unproblematic. But is there any reasonable epistemological basis for speaking of revelation? Even if there are different interpretations of what science does, whether scientific conclusions are understood realistically or instrumentally, say, there is good epistemological warrant for them. But where is the epistemological warrant for the idea of revelation? Just because religions speak about revelation is not sufficient to give authority to revelation as a source of knowledge. After all, there are so many incompatible “revelations” that the chance of any one of them being a genuine revelation of a god is vanishingly small.
Dixon even gets so carried away by the complexity of the “field”, that he thinks of Richard Dawkins as a contributor to it! The strange thing is that when he speaks of Dawkins’ contribution, he changes the word ‘field’ to ‘topic’ (cf. 422) And when he speaks about the “field” it is very clear that it is a religious undertaking, and has no relationship with science at all, as the following (already quoted passage) makes clear:
Academic work by scientists and theologians seeking to develop a harmonious interdisciplinary dialogue has been supported by a range of institutions, including the Roman Catholic Church, through the work of the Vatican Observatory, and also the John Templeton Foundation in America – a philanthropic organization particularly committed to supporting research that harmonizes science with religion. (411-414)
But in what sense does this describe an “interdisciplinary dialogue” and not just an attempt by religiously inclined scientists and scientifically inclined religionists to assimilate science to religion? Until religion can provide epistemic warrant for its claims, there isn’t even a discipline of theology. Dixon acknowledges that the concern to harmonise religion and science is, as he says, “partly driven by apologetic motives” (425), but it is not clear that he ever fulfils his promise to show that there are “purely academic considerations” (427) involved.
Take the case of Galileo. Usually, this is taken – correctly, in my view – as the opening round in the conflict between science and religion. But Dixon suggests a retelling of the story in such a way that it becomes “a disagreement among 17th-century Catholics about how to read the Bible.” (469) Dixon puts this retelling in the context of an account of how we know anything, and suggests that if we think of what was happening in this disagreement in philosophy of science terms we will see that what was happening in the disagreement between Galileo and the Inquisition was a more complex disagreement about the nature of human knowledge, and less a simple conflict between science and religion. He does this by considering two metaphors, Bacon’s metaphor of natural knowledge as something of God’s own planting, and the metaphor of the book of nature. So we have two books, the book of nature, and the book of God’s revelation, both of them coming from God, and both of them requiring interpretation. And then he says:
… the project of discerning an author’s intentions in a text is a difficult and controversial one. The histories of science and religion reveal that these difficulties have been experienced in full measure in relation to both of God’s books. (499-500)
And this he follows up with the claim that “[n]either nature nor scripture offers a transparent account of its author’s intentions.” (501) And, while acknowledging that we don’t need to think of nature as a book in need of interpretation, or of scripture (which scripture did he have in mind?) as revelation, he nowhere provides any basis at all for speaking of revelation. He seems to take it for granted that there is a revelation, so that we can speak without complication of “[r]evealed knowledge [as] produced by a supernatural uncovering of truth,” (511) but there is simply no convincing evidence that we have such knowledge, and Dixon provides us with none.
In the absence of such evidence the conflict between Galileo and the Inquisition is not one about the authority of different sources of knowledge, (cf. 516-17) it is simply a conflict between science, with its empirical evidence, and religion, with its unfounded claim to ‘a supernatural uncovering of truth.’ And even if the religious try to “reconcile their readings of God’s two books without doing violence to either” (527), there is simply no reason to suppose that God has written anything at all.
So, when we come to the conflict between Galileo and the church, and Dixon brings all these ideas into play, he concludes that Galileo’s argument, that the distinction between knowledge of the world by means of observation, and experiment, and knowledge of salvation by means of scripture and revelation, applied to his case, (532-33) did not convince the authorities, and that this failure did not amount to a conflict between science and religion. After all, says Dixon, “there were limits to show how far the authority of the Bible and the of the church could be challenged by an individual layman like Galileo. He went beyond those limits.” (533-34) Well, yes, he did, didn’t he? And that’s just where the conflict between religion and science comes into play.
Even if Galileo was in a minority amongst the scientific community of his day, as Dixon claims (537), and even if the astronomy of Ptolemy was better at making some calculations than the Copernican system which Galileo accepted, Galileo’s observations showed that Ptolemy couldn’t have been right, since there is more to astronomy than just making calculations about the positions of the planets. The pope may have taken an instrumental or anti-realist view of science, as Dixon suggests (642-43), but there are other things that Galileo’s observations explained that Ptolemy’s astronomy did not explain, such as the reason why Venus and Mercury can only be seen at dusk and twilight, and why some satellites, like Jupiter’s moons, did not orbit the earth. Dixon thinks that an objective observer “would have pronounced the scientific question an open one ….” (630) But, even if that were true – which in my opinion it is not, since, after all, this is the path that science followed shortly thereafter – the question of the authority of the Bible is still simply irrelevant to these issues. Dixon says that Galileo was punished “for disobeying the Church, rather than for seeking to understand the natural world through observation and reasoning ….” (624-25)
But this is just silly, since Galileo produced the evidence for his observations and reasoning, and he was forced to recant the conclusions to which he was led by them. Dixon has an answer to this. Since the history of science is the graveyard of dead theories, Dixon says, and “there is no reason to suppose that today’s successful theories are true,” (674-5) there is, presumably, no reason for faulting the pope for dismissing Galileo’s arguments. But there is every reason in the world for supposing that today’s theories are true, because these are the theories that are supported by the evidence, and others are not. The theories may have to be held provisionally, since they may come to grief, but there is every reason for believing them to be true, and until contrary evidence is found, no reason to believe them false. When the church disciplined Galileo, and forced him to recant, it dismissed his evidence and reasoning, not based on contrary evidence, but on the belief that the church’s sacred text had authority over any claims that were made about the nature of the world. And what is this but a conflict between science and religion. The only acceptable way of resolving this conflict was by doing more scientific observation, not by condemning Galileo for going beyond the limits of acceptable challenge to the authority of the Bible and the church.
Not only that, but Dixon even accuses Galileo of forcing the church to declare these conclusions heretical! So, not only did Galileo exceed his authority, he’s really to blame for the church’s conservative reaction. It seems that, in order to assimilate science to religion, no response is too absurd:
By drawing new attention to Copernicanism and to the Church’s attitude to scripture, Galileo had succeeded in having the former declared heretical and in seeing the latter hardened and entrenched in a more conservative position. (599-600)
What can one say to that except – “Wow!”? Or maybe “Whoa, baby!” We are told that the conflict between Galileo and the church was not a conflict between science and religion, but then we are told that Galileo’s actions hardened the church’s conservative position and forced the church to declare Copernicanism heretical!
There’s got to be something deeply wrong with this conclusion. Indeed, it shows, clearly, I think, that the whole “field” of Science and Religion is misconceived from the start. It is built on the assumption that there are two different sources of knowledge, each with its own legitimate authority, and the task of the “field” of Science and Religion is to come up with some way of harmonising these authorities. But surely the simple truth is that religion has not been able to provide an authoritative source of knowledge, or a method for distinguishing between what is true or false in the religious account of the world. The multiplicity of religions is alone enough to confirm this.
But there is something else that is particularly notable about Dixon’s treatment of the trial and condemnation of Galileo, and the lengths he appears to be willing to go in order to exonerate the church. For, there is not one mention of the Index of Prohibited Books (Index Librorum Prohibitorum) in Dixon’s book – not one. Now, surely this is a remarkable oversight in a book that claims to be providing the tools for thinking reasonably about the relationship of religion and science. The Index was established in 1559, a good 74 years before the trial and condemnation of Galileo. And while Dixon says that the Galileo forced the church to declare Copernicanism heretical, Johannes Kepler’s Epitome astronomiae Copernicianae, was on the Index from 1621 to 1835, and Copernicus’ work was already there, placed on the Index in 1611, and it also remained there until 1835. The last edition of the Index was issued in 1948, and the Index was not abolished until 1966. Surely, not to mention a religious institution that lasted for so long, and which prohibited, in its time, most of the greatest works of science and scholarship of the modern period, is a serious lacuna in a study aimed at exploring the relationship between science and religion. The failure betrays a degree of scholarly bias which leads one to wonder how the book got past the Oxford University Press editors, and alone calls into question the basic premise of the book about the existence of an academic “field” of Science and Religion.
When I began this review I had intended to look in some detail at the conflict between religion and science as it pertains to Darwin and the theory of evolution. Of course, it is evident that there is an incredible amount of conflict between forms of fundamentalist religion and evolutionary biology. Dixon may, as we have seen, want to see this conflict as mainly political, but this is irrelevant. It is political because it is a conflict between religion and science, which is bound to have political ramifications. And while it is true that many learned religious people, especially in the mainstream of Christianity, accepted evolution, as the evidence clearly requires, it is still true to say that there is a fundamental incompatibility between religion and evolutionary biology. It was an incompatibility that was recognised by Darwin. And while it is true that some religious people are prepared to accept evolution as a purely algorithmic process, most religious people, even very liberal religious believers, cannot dispense with the notion that, whatever we may say about the rest of life on earth, the existence of human beings is somehow purposed and therefore privileged.
But Darwin had noticed something that most religious believers simply have not even considered. It is said that after his beloved daughter Annie died of tuberculosis at the age of 10, Darwin stopped attending church. He would accompany his family to the church door, and then carry on with his morning walk. Why? Scarcely anyone asks this question. Why did his daughter’s death topple whatever semblance of faith he had managed to preserve, mainly for his wife’s sake, over whose letter expressing her sense that life would not be worthwhile if she could not believe that they would be reunited after death, he had so often cried? I think I know the answer. It was not just that someone deeply loved had died. The reason was that Darwin had seen, in the death of his ten-year-old daughter, the process of natural selection at work, and the horror of that process, the pain and suffering and the snuffing out of a bright life and all its hopefulness, made it brutally clear that this was an impersonal process, indifferent and blind to the suffering it caused. This was not the product of a caring or benevolent being. It was a mechanical process in which life was indifferently selected for or selected out, much like a stock breeder will choose between the animals that are chosen as studs for breeding and those that are turned into steers for slaughter. And Annie had been selected out. Belief in God could not survive that.
Dixon says that the world scarcely needed Darwin to point out that suffering, violence and death “were features of the natural world in general and of human life in particular.” (1192) Well, no, of course it didn’t. But Dixon misses the new dimension that Darwin’s theory adds to the problem of evil. Evolution plans suffering and death into the very process of “creation” itself. Indeed, evolution is the problem of evil magnified. It is one thing to recognise that there is suffering, violence and death in the world, and that, in itself, has been a virtually unsolvable problem for religion. Epicurus’ argument, quoted by Hume, seems to be decisive. “Is he willing to prevent evil but not able? then he is incompetent. Is he able but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both willing and able? whence then is evil?” (Dialogues of Natural Religion, Part X) But if God has planned additional suffering into the very process by which he creates life, then the problem of evil is simply magnified. Not being able to create life without suffering, violence and death is problem enough. But creating life by means of suffering, violence and death: that’s another problem altogether. This Dixon does not see.
Aside from its magnification of the problem of evil, the real problem with evolution from the religious standpoint is, as Dixon himself observes, that it obliterates the boundary between human beings and the rest of life on earth. (1198-99) But then he goes on to quote the pope (Benedict-Ratzinger):
We are not [says the pope] some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary. (1234-35)
And then Dixon, misleadingly, I think, goes on to say this:
The Pope’s warnings are not against evolution as a science, but against adopting the idea of evolution as an overarching view that deprives the world of meaning and purpose. (1236-37)
This is simply a misunderstanding of what the pope said. The pope’s statement is the statement of a religious conviction that is in immediate and direct conflict with evolutionary science. It assumes that thinking of ourselves as the unpurposed products of evolution is to deprive the world of meaning and purpose. In response to this the pope contrives to spin evolution in such a way as to maintain the barrier between ourselves and the rest of life on earth. But this is imply a rejection of the theory of evolution. It is not a harmonising of religion and science, but a desperate subversion of the conclusions of science themselves.
And this is a misunderstanding that runs through the whole book. There are all sorts of other matters raised in Dixon’s book, questions about miracles, for instance, or about determinism and quantum indeterminacy, and how science and religion relate in each case. “Pity the poor theologians!” he cries, “They are faced with a seemingly impossible dilemma when it comes to making sense of divine action in the world.” (745) Either God’s acts are few, and inexplicable. Why in this case if not in that? Or God does not act at all, and simply creates the processes that govern the world, and lets things unfold as the laws of nature decree. In the first lemma, as he points out later, “divine inaction is as hard to explain as divine action.” (967-68) But in the second, God is simply a deist first cause, and not the god of religion at all. In the light of this, would it not be better simply to acknowledge that there is no reason for believing that there is any evidence for the divine anywhere in the world? And if there is no such evidence, what reason is there for believing? The attempt to harmonise religion and science (rather than science and religion) is in fact an attempt to reinterpret scientific findings in such a way that they can be reconciled with people’s religious beliefs, so that people can hold incompatible ideas in their minds without noticing the incompatibility. This will also make it look as if science and religion never conflict, but this is just for religious consumption. It has absolutely nothing to do with history, and even less to do with science.
Thomas Dixon, Science and Religion: A Very Short Introduction (Oxford: University Press, 2008)
smackdown
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Well, can I just say a big thank you to Eric Macdonald for such a detailed criticism of Dixon’s book. But since the ‘field’ of science and religion is either non-existent or problematic, and not one taken seriously by philosophers or scientists, but only by Templeton historians and theologians, then perhaps there is no need?
I don’t know why Thomas Dixon even wrote this book. Perhaps it’s a wedge among other Templeton works to try and make a respectable academic discipline out of Religion’s non-conflict with Science? It seems like a field dominated only by Templeton historians and theologians, and a field of no particular interest to anyone else.
Also, what about Islam? Has Thomas Dixon completely left out the conflict between Islam and Science? Does it contain any mention? What about other religions? Or does it restrict itself only to the Christian religion? If so, then perhaps the title and the field are not only problematic but entirely misleading. Perhaps the work is not some impartial examination between religion and science, but a work motivated entirely under a Christian agenda. And that is an awful lapse.
Nice work here Eric.
Very interesting, Eric. Thank you.
But it’s becoming increasingly mainstream, witness the very book under discussion. Witness also the BBC programme Dixon did on the subject. Witness the Cambridge Companion to S and R. So there is need, there is a lot of need. S and R debunkenda est.
I have not read the book under review, but it seems that the other misinterpretation of JP II is not brought out by the reviewer. Namely, “his holiness” said that (basically) human mental faculties are a miracle, and hence have no evolutionary antecedents. One need not be a fan of the current state of evolutionary psychology to know that this statement is deeply problematic.
Also, how is it a justification of what was done to Galileo (or worse, Bruno) to say that there was either a philosophical conflict (realism/antirealism – which, incidentally,as Bunge points out, involves a retreat to antirealism for religious reasons) or a theological one (how to read “scripture”)? Being threatened or executed for holding unorthodox views in those respects may not be a “science/religion” conflict – though maybe, see the Bunge remark previously – but still, come on … “Sorry, Mr. Bruno, we have to kill you for heresy, but it will be ok because you’re a pantheist and a shit-disturber, not a scientist. Sorry, Galileo, here are the instruments of torture, but don’t worry, we’ll use them if only you stop talking abou the bible, not because you write about Copernicanism!” As if that makes it ok!
[…] Review of Science and Religion VSI Let’s get the first misunderstanding out of the way. Despite its comprehensive overthrow by the Enlightenment – what Jonathan Israel calls “theology’s loss of hegemony in the eighteenth century” (Israel, Jonathan. Enlightenment Contested (Oxford: University Press, 2006), 68) – religion still has a disproportionate footprint in the public sphere, even in places where the Enlightenment originated and flourished. Counter-Enlightenment forces were very effective in preserving the structures of ecclesial power that existed in Europe and in societies whose majority populations derive from European immigration. Religious belief itself made successive accommodations to scientific discoveries and the liberal, democratic political arrangements that originated in foundational philosophical works of the Enlightenment. These continued accommodations were in the nature of a steady retreat of religion and theology in the face of the growing success of science in producing reliable descriptions of the natural and human world. The liberal face of religion, thus revealed, acknowledged these successes, yet the heart of religion remained obdurate and unmoved. The forces which kept religions united and effective, as religions, were the beliefs which had been subverted by science. Surrounded by the protective glacis of liberalism, these beliefs were the citadel, without whose existence religion as religion would have simply perished. […]
Nice work Eric.
I keep trying to find out how these individuals believe religious knowledge is generated, but I haven’t been very successful. Biologos commenters love to talk about transcendence as a way of knowing god, but it is all talk.
I think this the crux of the issue:
The whole of religion relies on the revelations of prophets as direct connections with their god. Moses fasting on the mountain and coming down with the ten commandments, Jesus fasting in the desert and his hallucinatory dream about Satan. These are things happening in the individual mind under the influence of certain physiological changes brought about by fasting, meditation or the ingestion of certain plants and fungi. Just about every shaman in every tribal community knew about these tricks long, long ago. They provide an effective means to focus on problems which may be difficult to answer and a good practitioner of these mind-altering techniques could be viewed as an authoritative figure. No god is involved, but it makes your pronouncement all the more important if you say he or she was the source.
I have just read this review of my book, and feel sorely misrepresented!
I am an agnostic with no axe to grind in favour of (or against) religion.
The review quotes selectively from sections in which I try to explain various religious points of view (in a detached way) as if they are statements of my own views – e.g. when I try to explain the Pope’s views about evolution, or the beliefs about revelation of those who are religious believers. Anyone who has read the book will see that I try to allow both religious and atheistic arguments to speak for themselves.
The review quotes from the section when I mention the religious motives of some, such as the Templeton Foundation, who support work in this area as if this were some inadvertent slip on my part, accidentally revealing the truth! But I thought this was an important fact to mention for, I imagine, the same reasons that the reviewer would. It is absolutely true that many (but not all) of those who write about ‘science and religion’ as academics do so out of some kind of sympathy with religion. That is not a secret.
The whole review also lays great stress on the idea of ‘science and religion’ or ‘religion and science’ as an academic ‘field’, as if this were something I were vociferously defending and put great emphasis upon. But this preoccupation is the reviewer’s, not mine. My book is not about such a ‘field’ at all, but aims to introduce readers who are only familar with recent debates (focussed on Dawkins and his followers/critics) to a longer and broader history. The section on ‘science and religion’ as an academic field, in which I mention Templeton etc., is just one, short part of the first chapter of the book.
Readers of this review who have not read my book would also not know, from this review, that my book comes down strongly against ‘Intelligent Design’.
Also, the whole point of the section on the ‘Theologian’s Dilemma’, as far as I was concerned, is pretty much the one which the reviewer draws out – but as if it were the opposite of my intention – namely that this is an extremely difficult case to answer for religious believers.
I suspect, in that case, you’ve had a bit of bad luck with the timing. Thanks largely to Templeton, there is such a field and there are a lot of related books and conferences. Part of the problem with Templeton, in fact, is its habit of placing its conferences and “fellowships” and the like adjacent to respectable universities; that practice may rub off on non-Templeton people. It’s most unfair.
The trouble is…the history of science and religion is not the same as the philosophy or the epistemology of science and religion, and the first is often used to obscure the second. (I noticed this more than a decade ago, when reading Edward Larson’s book on the Scopes trial. I mean, I noticed that it was a history and that it didn’t really deal with the epistemology, and that that frustrated me.)
Many thanks for this Eric. I’m going to think on before commenting on some of your points, which I think are very interesting and to the point (of Science and Religion, I mean).
From what Thomas Dixon says, he presents this book, I think, as an introduction of various historical issues that have come to be identified with this growing field of “Science and Religion” in the last century and a half (ish); he necessarily must outline what accommodationists and anti conflict thesis writers say (and the other side I presume?), but does not endorse them.
Some have noticed a certain ‘hi-jacking’ of that phrase by Templeton and other (NOMA type) accommodationists, in the active service of reconciling the two magisteria. So one would hope that academics in the field would denounce any attempts by Templeton to muddy the water in which they swim, since the danger is that it (the academic field of Science and Religion) will be seen as partial.
I would hope that, in this light, historians and others will appreciate the potentially toxic nature of Templeton’s influence on “Science and Religion” initiatives, despite the best motives of all involved.
Dr Dixon says:
Fair enough. But he is a member, I believe, of the International Society of Science and Religion, founded by John Polkinghorne (who surely thinks they are compatible), which suggests he has some sort of standing in (if not commitment to?) the field, and of which:
No-one wants to commit the bad company fallacy, so I’m glad that Dr Dixon isn’t pre-occupied with ‘Science and Religion’, and doesn’t think they are compatible, but I hope he can see where this mis-perception could have arisen.
If truth is so unimportant, why bother writing a book?
Thank you very much indeed, Eric, for your thoughtful and trenchant review. I am glad that Dr Dixon has read it and replied, but wish that in his reply he had had the courage to address the many important issues you raise instead of weakly complaining about being misrepresented.
I wish Dixon had told us how religion is a way of knowing – I for one am dying to know.
Indeed the multiplicity of religions is excellent evidence that none of them is right. I learned at university that when you have several explanations for something they’re all wrong, otherwise the correct one would dominate the field. No doubt a visceral understanding of this reality is why the religious are so keen to insist that they are all really in agreement, in defiance of the obvious fact that no two faithists can even agree on so basic an issue as what the god they worship is!
Dr. Dixon, I’m sorry that you feel so misrepresented by what I wrote. I bought the book to see if it would settle the question that is being asked more and more by people like Jerry Coyne, PZ Myers, Jason Rosenhouse, and many others, about the attempt of some scientists/scientific organisations to accommodate religion to science. Having played the theological game for many years, and knowing how live an issue science has been for theologians, who have made successive accomodations of religious belief to science, the book promised to look at this relationship in a detached, scholarly way. At the beginning you express the view that while you do not expect religion and science to stop disagreeing with each other, you do want to provide a sounder basis for exploring the relationship between the two, so that those disagreements can be placed on a sounder footing.
In order to do this, however, you cannot simply take religion at face value, or science at face value. You must explore the epistemological questions that arise regarding religious belief, on the one hand, and scientific theories and their confirmation on the other. Surely, this is key to an understanding of what the conflicts are really about. Yet, it seemed to me that, by emphasising complexity, you left the impression that this is not really an important question at all. Indeed, some of what you say seems to come from within the postmodern conception of discourse as in some sense simply a question of hermeneutics. So the religious view of the world is mediated by its tradition, just as the scientific view of the world is mediated by its tradition, and there is no significant epistemological difference between the two traditions. Each is a paradigmatic way of viewing the world, and each has as much epistemological credibility as the other. So, when you say that Urban took an instrumentalist view of science, you suggest that, in some sense, he is on all fours with Galileo, who took a more realistic view. But this neglects the fact that Urban really had no view of science at all. He had ultimate authority in the Italy of his day, and he exercised it in favour, not of an instrumentalist view of science, but of an authoritarian view of what would constitute knowledge.
When you speak of the Scopes trial or the Galileo condemnation, for example, the real disagreements between religion and science are dissolved into their complexities, so that, for example, Scopes becomes as much about communism as it was about religion and science, and Galileo became simply a disagreement over hermeneutics, and who had authority to made decisions about the interpretation of the Bible. In the same way, the evolution-religion conflict in the US is reduced to politics. Now, no doubt there are complexities involved in each case, but I find it misleading to suppose that at the heart of these conflicts there are no important epistemological differences that led to them in the first place.
The world is a exceptionally complex place, so all sorts of different things come into play. This has a way of subverting any attempt at explanation at all, by hiding the different threads that go to make up the complexes we are trying to explain. The conflict between science and religion seems to be dissolved into the cultural complexes in which it takes place, and so what you set out to explain remains very murky indeed. I did not, I am sorry to say, come away from your book with any clarity about the things about which you promise clarity, and in fact, if anything, it seems to me, your book is misleading as to what the issues are in conflicts between religion and science. In fact, your repeated claim — and it is placed right at the beginning of the book, and in some sense ranges over the whole discussion — that there is a scholarly “field” properly called “Science and Religion”, a claim the implications of which simply cry out for further exploration, tends to put religion and science on an equal footing right from the start. You express some sympathy for the view that this is mainly an apologetic exercise, but you do not give weight to it, and in order to explain what you are doing this seems to me a vital first step. Without it, the historical questions become, I think, hopelessly confused.
To take something that I do not mention in my review, consider the Oxford debate in which Wilberforce and Huxley came to verbal blows. This is an area much worked over in a curiously revisionist way which is reflected in your discussion. Just after the debate was over it was clear (on the evidence) that both sides thought they had won. Wilberforce never felt that he had been bested, and in later life looked back on the occasion with some satisfaction. You suggest that “The Huxley-Wilberforce story was then used retrospectively [in view of the ascendency of professionalising agnostics in the British scientific establishment], as a piece of victors’ history, to suggest a clearer triumph of scientific naturalism over Anglican conservatism than had really been achieved in Oxford in 1860.” (1175-1179) This seems to be a clever way of interpreting what took place, but, from the beginning, both sides believed they had won. If it looks as though the debate was turned into a piece of victors’ history, this is probably due to the fact that, in the event, Wilberforce turned out to have been wrong, even though this was not obvious at the time. But — and this is my point — the conflict was real. Wilberforce believed that Darwin was wrong, and his review made that clear. But Darwin had shown, in detail, how he could be proved wrong, so the possibility that he was wrong was recognised even by Darwin, from the start, and Darwin himself acknowledged the force of Wilberforce’s critique. But Wilberforce did not only show how Darwin could be shown to be wrong. He wanted him to be wrong, because he could see very clearly how Darwin’s theory conflicted with his Christian beliefs. And it is in his wanting him to be wrong that the conflict really resides. His review was not a dispassionate: “Here are avenues for exploration,” but: “Evolution is probably wrong, for these reasons, and that’s a good thing, because if evolution is the correct theory about how life developed on earth, then my religious beliefs are wrong.” And the latter he was not willing to consider. That’s the conflict in a nutshell. And it does not seem to me that you make this at all clear.
Two important considerations that you do not even address in your book show in my view how biased your account really is. First, as I point out, the fact that you do not mention the Index is surprising and misleading, since the Index in some sense represents the conflict of religion and science during the whole period that you discuss in your book. The idea that the church possesses authoritative knowledge, and the right to prohibit the reading of certain books, means that, for the entire period of its existence, the Index clearly shows the incompatibility of religion and science. And to suggest that the conflict thesis holds that science and religion are inevitably in conflict is itself misleading. Religion is necessarily in conflict with religion if it chooses to pronounce on issues that are resolvable only by science, but it need not conflict at all, since it does not deal with anything that can reasonably be called knowledge. The second consideration is the response of the church to the critical study of scripture. Even now, as Hector Avalos points out in his book The End of Biblical Studies, the church is unable to accept the consequences of this critical study, and continues to privilege texts which are, on the evidence, human and cultural artifacts. The refusal to accept biblical or Qu’ranic texts as human creations is a refusal to accept the clear findings of critical study.
Yes, of course, as a reasonable man, you do not accept the claims of intelligent design theory. But this shows something very clearly, and that is, that, when it becomes obvious to you that epistemologically a point of view simply has no basis, you are willing simply to dismiss it. But, epistemologically, the claims of the church regarding the authority of the Bible in answering questions about the world are just as hopeless as, and perhaps even more hopeless than, the claims of ID, which at least makes some pretence of accommodating to things as they are in the world. And there is reason for supposing that the epistemological issues were becoming much more clear at the time of Galileo than you appear willing to acknowledge. The very fact that Galileo’s results were the outcome of observation and experiment makes it reasonably clear that we are dealing with a paradigmatic conflict between science and religion that endures to this day, and that religion is even now reluctant to recognise. Not only did I hope for much more clarity about this conflict than you provide; by the end of your book I was not clear as to the kind of relationship you think there is between religion and science.
Thanks Eric. This is a terrifically interesting discussion, of crucial matters; thanks for doing the demanding spade-work. Thanks to Thomas Dixon for engaging, too.
Many thanks for your reply, Eric, which I think clarifies very nicely how and why we are approaching this issue in different ways. Thank-you for taking the time! It has warmed up my brain on a snowy evening to think about how to respond.
I think the bottom line is that I’m not happy to generalise about ‘religion’ in the way that you want to, nor to treat all ‘religion’ as if it were at one, extreme end of the spectrum in terms of scriptural literalism and authoritarianism; nor to suppose that there is just one ‘paradigmatic’ singular relationship between religion and science.
Let me offer some brief thoughts in response to some of the particular points you mention:
– I do think that scientific disciplines and religions, while being very different in very many ways (religion is cheaper, more accessible, lower-tech, less mathematical and very much less interested in the structure of the physical world) both operate as traditions in that each generation inherits established modes of thought, principles and methods with which to work. The differences between science and religion are very obvious, so I think it is more interesting (and more fun) to point out similarities as a way to get people thinking.
– On Urban and Galileo. Of course Urban was not primarily a man of science, but I don’t think that means that his instrumentalism about science was insincere or a veil for a purely ‘authoritarian’ view. I think that non-realist or instrumentalist philosophies of science are very interesting and have been supported, right up to the present, by very acute philosophical minds (most recently Bas van Fraassen).
– I stand by my emphasis on the political aspects of all of this. Claims about the nature of reality and who has the authority to discover and describe it, and by what methods, are questions about power, and thus political. I don’t say that the Scopes or Galileo cases were nothing but politics, but I do say they were political.
– I plead absolutely guilty to the charge of creating a picture in which famous episodes often portrayed as part of a timeless ‘conflict between science and religion’, are instead made part of messy cultural and political complexities. It seems to me that the single biggest problem with contemporary debates about science and religion is excessive confidence in excessively simple (and unhistorical) views. My book absolutely set out to offer a more complex, more cultural, more political, more historical picture.
– You refer to ‘the conflict’ and ‘the relationship’ between science and religion – both with the singular definite article. I don’t accept that any such singular and definite relationship exists. The two terms ‘science’ and ‘religion’ are so capacious, and their definitions have changed over time and between different societies. And on all sides, well informed and intelligent people have seen different kinds of harmony or conflict. I do not think any statement about what ‘the’ relationship is can be sustained. What I tried to do instead was to tell it how it seems to me, as an intellectual historian. My aim was absolutely not to create murkiness or gratuitous complexity but to try to get at the philosophical issues (about realism, causation, laws of nature, materialism) and political dimensions (knowledge, power, democracy) that seem to me to be the driving forces.
– On this issue of the ‘field’ called ‘science and religion’: I don’t think what I say is controversial. There is such a field. It has specialist books, journals, conferences. It is, as you well know, supported in large measure, but not exclusively by any means, by the Templeton Foundation. The field dates back to the 1960s, as I say in my book, which is when Ian Barbour’s books and the journal Zygon first came out. This all predates Templeton. The fact that this field exists does not imply that science and religion are ‘on an equal footing’ (whatever that means). It is simply a fact that the field exists – even if you think it’s all baloney! – and that people undertake research in this field, and publish on it. I do not, incidentally, see my book as a contribution to that field but rather to be reaching out to a much wider readership. I see it, in fact, as an attempt to popularise ideas and research produced by scholars working in the fields of history and philosophy of science. One of the reviews on Amazon.com of the book complains that I seem not to have any grasp of the field of ‘science and religion’!
– I think we basically agree about the Huxley-Wilberforce debate. The conflict was real but my hope was to get behind the idea that it was an instance of a timeless ‘conflict between science and religion’ which has always existed (which I do not believe is supportable by the historical record) – and to look instead at the particular political and intellectual currents of the time which brought these two individuals into conflict in 1860. I don’t think that Wilberforce was so different from Darwin or Huxley in having a strong desire to be right. All of us aspire to be dispassionate, and are required to claim it in scholarly debates, but I don’t think anyone really achieves it, thankfully. And I don’t believe Wilberforce was as closed-minded as you imply. Many within the Church (and in the scientific community) in 1860 shared his fears and resistance but many, from then onwards, remained in the Church and became believers in Darwinism (Temple, Kingsley, Drummond, etc. – and even Wilberforce’s own son).
– On the Catholic Church’s Index of banned books. I agree I could have mentioned that – and have done in other things I’ve written. The Catholic Church (like all religions) has had a mixed relationship with science. It has provided a great deal of support for scientific research, as well as sometimes coming into conflict with its findings. As I also say in my book, their are Catholics who support Intelligent Design as well as those (notably Kenneth Miller) who teach and research evolutionary theory. The existence of the Index does not show that science and religion are incompatible, it shows that in some periods, one religious institutions, the Roman Catholic Church found some scientific ideas unacceptable. Its existence does not sustain the much broader generalisation that you want it to support.
– In your comments on the attitude of ‘the church’ to biblical studies again I fear you will think me murky, but what is this ‘the church’ you refer to? There are very many (hundreds) of christian churches with very many different attitudes to the bible – from fundamentalist literalism to extreme liberalism of a kind that happily treats the bible historically and critically (a liberalism which also goes back to 1860 and the publication of ‘Essays and Reviews’). Many (although not most) religious believers accept that scriptural texts are human creations. There is certainly a conflict between biblical literalism and modern science – although even there the picture is more complex than we might suppose since biblical literalism is itself a product of kind of modern scientism.
Well, that’s probably as far as we are going to get in terms of further illumination….I’m exhausted!
Let me end my saying again that I very much appreciate your taking the time to engage so carefully with my book and, especially, with my response to your review.
In turn, thank you, Thomas. I think this is a compelling discussion; thank you for contributing to it.
I think this is key:
A Foucauldian take. It’s both true and important, but it can be misleading if it’s treated as central. Yes claims about who has the authority to describe reality are political, but the political aspect is fundamentally extraneous. It may loom large, or it may not, but it is ultimately beside the point. Historians of course deal with the stuff that comes before “ultimately,” but they also make claims about the nature of reality themselves. Departmental politics can be fascinating (or more likely utterly boring) but they don’t decide the truth of historical claims. The “truth” of them maybe, sometimes, but the truth, no.
I really am not sure how (2) can coherently fit with (1). You say you don’t wish to generalise about religion, and yet you are using the term religion, I assume, to refer to Christian theology, and not religion itself nor religion as a comprehensive umbrella term. I don’t even think that theology can be satisfactorily termed a religion, but a kind of epistemology within Christianity.
Also, I don’t recognise science as a tradition either, but an epistemology based on empiricism. Science as practiced by Aristotle is not the same as science practiced by Newton, and science practiced by Darwin is not the science practiced by Galileo.
And so before even discussing ‘religion’ and ‘science’ we’ve reduced religion to mean Christian theology which is not really religion at all, and we’ve misinterpreted science as a single tradition, when in fact science has multiple fields from different eras that don’t necessarily share the same methodologies or body of knowledge. Of course philosophers of science do study science as a whole, and the field of philosophy of science is a far better field to compare with theology.
So in order to actually begin any field called ‘Science and Religion’ we must reduce ourselves to something like theology and philosophy of science. But in doing so, we’re so far removed from Science or Religion, so as to make such a field irrelevent and incoherent.
Basically, both Science and Religion are messy bodies of knowledge or communities that are very separate bodies of knowledge and separate communities. But in order to find some kind of compatibility between these two different bodies of knowledge/communities you must essentially find one coherent body for science and one coherent body for religion, and in doing so you’re no longer within the field of science nor religion. The task or field itself is incoherent and nonsensical.
But if this isn’t bad enough, this field is being studied in terms of history. And so we’re no longer within either fields of theology or philosophy of science, but in history. And I don’t think it is the task of history to determine whether science and religion are compatible, in fact I don’t think it has anything to do with history, but it is more a political goal.
As Ophelia points out in her comment 12, your book is supposedly a history and not a philosophy or science in itself, and worse, it is not the task of history to resolve conflicts. We’re already so far removed from either science or religion, that your historical picture of things is no longer anything to do with science or religion but only to history itself.
What this all boils down to, is political conflict between science and religion. It has nothing to do with anything else. And since it is a political conflict, I’m afraid it is most definitely not about complexity. The idea that things are complex is in itself a political weapon to attack contemporary science.
[…] times 3 because commenting on Thomas Dixon’s comments on Eric MacDonald’s review of Dixon’s book. Dixon says, in reply to Eric’s reply to him, that it is becoming clear how their approaches […]
‘The existence of the Index does not show that science and religion are incompatible.’ Perhaps not, taken in itself, but taken in conjunction with a number of other things… The question I want to ask is this: Do you, Dr Dixon, believe that such religious claims as are central to Christianity – creation ex nihilo, the ‘fact’ of original sin (though doubtless there are advanced theologians about who have abandoned the idea), the existence in each human being of an immortal soul, the virgin birth, Christ’s Resurrection, and the Atonement: do you believe that such claims are compatible with what science has shown us and, if so, on what grounds do you believe this? I should like to interject here that since it is typically the two most authoritarian monotheistic religions that seem to have the most trouble with science, and in the main, for historical reasons, Christianity, I wonder whether it would not be far better to couch the quarrel in terms of science and Christianity and not in terms of science and religion generally. In Japan, where I live, no Japanese apart from a few Christians have any trouble whatsoever about accepting the theory of evolution, and to most Japanese people the squabble that seems to exercise so many people in the West appears merely quaint. I don’t think you’ll find many Chinese people either who share the sort of antipathy to science, or the rejection or simple ignoring of its implications, you find among many in the Christian West – and not because they have been ‘indoctrinated’ with ‘materialist’ ideas.
Well, thank you Thomas for your very detailed response, which, I’m afraid, compels me to respond, and I shall try to do it a bit more briefly than you. I do not think you are putting enough weight on the epistemological questions that arise when you speak about the relationship between science and religion. Even if I were ready to acknowledge that religion is a very complex reality indeed — which I am — the epistemological question still has to be faced, and we cannot show any reasonable sense of their relationship without raising that basic question.
However complex and many faceted religion may be, the question still needs to be faced that, aside from the theological/liturgical/devotional tradition of religion, and its methods of working, and these are doubtless, as you say, highly complex, there has to be some point where religion is prepared to face the critical questions that science addresses to it. For it to claim some kind of status as making a claim to knowledge about reality, however described, it has to show how that claim can be made good, and that means that it must have a method or error theory for settling disputes. It does not have any such method. If it did, there would not be such a variety of religious traditions, none of which has a shadow of a chance of being right.
I was part of the messiness of religion for years, and achieved a moderate competence in making theological arguments. For part of that period I was at the more conservative anglo-catholic end of the spectrum, and then, under the influence of life events and a special relationship, I began to unwind, and ended up at a liberal extreme, very Cupittian, in my own way. (I can remember, while I was in the process of moving from the security blanket of conservative anglo-catholicism to a more liberal understanding of Christian theology, speaking at a conference, and after I had said my piece, someone got up and said, “If that’s what you believe, brother, we’re all praying for you!” And there was a chorus of approval from the assembled worthies.) So, whether others are likely, as you say, to be excessively confident “in excessively simple (and unhistorical) views,” that’s not me. I understand all about the messiness of the church, or at least one part of the Christian tradition. But even with that understanding, a kind of privileging of the biblical text is still a requirement if you are going to be taken at all seriously. One can be as hermeneutically daring as one likes, but, in the end, the text is either privileged, or what you say will not be taken seriously as a contribution to the Christian conversation. (Much that Don Cupitt writes is not considered Christian at all, as interesting as so much of it is.) That is epistemological bedrock, no matter what critical study of the Bible may say. And that’s simply not enough to be going on with.
Of course, there are similar features in science. It’s a very messy, and, in so many respects, a very complex and uncoordinated cultural product, many of whose parts have never been brought together or considered together. In fact, it is, at the growing edge, so specialised, and requires such a lengthy apprenticeship in complex skills, that at any given time only a few people are likely truly to understand what is being said. Nevertheless, unlike religion, every scientific thesis must be in principle checkable by someone else by means of following certain methods and procedures of experiment or observation. Without that basis it cannot be considered part of the body of scientific work.
So, when there is a conflict between a religious belief, based on a traditional conversation, rooted in a privileged text and its intepretation, and a scientific finding, appropriately grounded in experiment and observation, the religious belief must give way. Now, some religious people say that they understand this, and that it has been understood since Augustine, but that was long before science came to recognise that we ourselves are products of a natural process. Augustine thought we had been created by God, and are, as such, a privileged part of creation, distinct from the other forms of life around us. But the rest of the world was able to be understood by us, since we shared, in fact, something divine. Indeed, he uses the different faculties of human consciousness as a model for the Trinity. So, of course, he could speak of the world around as able to be investigated and understood by the mind. But there was a sharp division between the knowable world, and the revealed truths of religion. That boundary is still quite carefully patrolled. So when the pope speaks of humanity as not, as human, something evolved, he is not, as you suggest, merely pointing out that “we are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution.” He is directly challenging evolutionary science. He is in conflict with it. For we are, in fact, ‘casual and meaningless products of evolution,’ though it does not follow that life is meaningless, for we can and we do create meaning for our lives. What the pope thinks is that, if God did not create us, as beings of infinite worth through that creative act, then life is meaningless. There is no reason to conclude this. In fact, if this is what he thinks, science tells him that his life is meaningless, for God did not create us. There is not a scrap of evidence for this. We can story it in myth if we like, but then we must not consider it knowledge. And if we are to consider it to be knowledge, then we must show how it can be proved. And it is, in this case, precisely religion’s messiness that makes this impossible, for the diversity of beliefs about these things is so great that there is no a chance that one subset of them might be true.
In other words, while you want to look at the messiness of history, I don’t want to be befuddled by it, because too much hangs on the beliefs that people claim to be true on the basis of their religious convictions. I am particularly concerned about the right to die, because my young wife had a very aggressive case of MS, and after trying and failing to take her life, she opted to go to Switzerland to die before her paralysis had trapped her in her body. And it is religious conviction which perpetuates the cruelty of forcing people to live in conditions that they consider degrading and humiliating. It is precisely the pope’s unsubstantiated claim that we are created by God as beings of infinite worth that forced my wife to die much earlier than she would have done had she been able to do it legally here in Canada, and had not her right to die continued to be obstructed by religious convictions which she did not share.
I do not think, and you have not convinced me, that we cannot sort out, from the messiness of history, types of discourse which are more likely to be able to be well grounded epistemologically from types of discourse that are not able to be so grounded. Nor is it clear to me that there has not been, and continues to be, a conflict between those two very different types of discourse and the traditions they embody. For convenience, we can distinguish them by speaking of religion and science, recognising that underlying those words are historical processes and realities that are as messy as you like. But it still does not follow that one of them is not a knowledge producing activity, and that another produces no knowledge of any significance or worth; though I am prepared, with Richard Holloway, to suppose that there is, within religion, sometimes an imaginative grasp of being human which is existentially compelling. I think, though I may be wrong about this, that this could be done just as effectively through other forms of imagination, and that the time has come to say goodbye to the mythmaking imagination, since at some point in the messy cultural reality which constitute religion it inevitably makes epistemological claims which cannot be made good, even while some within the same tradition will understand them as freeform aspects of the creative imagination. For the more realistic understanding of religious beliefs is the form of religion which underlies religious power, and the sooner we are freed from the tentacles of religious power, it seems to me, the better off we will be. People can go on pretending, if they wish, but they mustn’t imagine that they have anything to contribute to the sum of human knowledge. (But now, echoing you, I am getting a bit weary, so I must say adieu. I do, however, find the discussion of this issue a compelling one, though I do not think of it as a field of study. By the by, in your first post you remark that you did not put any weight on the issue of its being a field of study or not, and yet in your second one you say that of course, it is indisputably a field of study. I still don’t think it is, for a very simple reason. Harmonising science and religion is of no interest to science. Harmonising religion and science is a religious undertaking. Even agnostics may sometimes pitch in and help religion out.)
[…] breaking it into pieces, because it’s a large subject. Thomas Dixon also said I stand by my emphasis on the political aspects of all of this. Cl aims about the nature of […]
And another important factor has surely been Christianity’s original sin: its insistence on being the only possessor of truth and is deprecation both of pagan tolerance and of intellectual inquiry, something that a number of Classical writers, including of course the Emperor Julian, remarked upon, and that led, as Charles Freeman has shown in his very fair-minded history, The Closing of the Western Mind, to the disappearance of the traditions of scientific and mathematical enquiry that flourished in the Greek world. Freeman remarks on the similarity of the quarrel then with the quarrel now. When this intransigence became combined with the prize of political power (it is not possible to separate the political from the religious, particularly in the case of Christianity), the insistence on correct and dogmatic belief within Christianity became ever more fervid, as the heresy-hunting showed, and as the disputes over Christ’s nature, etc that were finally settled, as far as they could be, by the forceful hand of emperors also showed. After the separation of the Orthodox from the Catholic church, the latter, because of its situation, became ever more over-weening and militant; an attitude that persists in recent popes’ assertions that the church is in a position to judge science – aaertions that are not fundamentally different from the Baptist Mohler’s.
Hi Eric,
Just a quick note to thank you again for your engagment. I think this is all fascinating and we have made good headway in clarifying our differences (and some agreements too) – and in a pretty civilised way! My own personal background is similar to yours – a journey from Christian belief to nonbelief, via non-realist Cupittian Christianity.
On the key issue which clearly concerns contributors to this blog – about the conflict between certain scientific findings and religious beliefs – e.g. about miracles, the existence of a soul, life after death, and so on – well, I do address all of those in my book. I tried to make it clear that astronomy, physics, neuroscience, and evolution have all posed substantial challenges to religious beliefs and that in many cases those beliefs have had to be reappraised, reinterpreted, or abandoned.
But the point I’d make is that there are still plenty of people (both now and in the past) who have been motivated in their scientiifc research by religious faith, and others who have retained their (modified) theistic religious beliefs while fully accepting the results of science (like the Japanese and Chinese people mentioned in one of the responses above).
On the issue of the ‘field’ of science and religion, I think we must be somehow at cross purposes. As far as I am concerned this field of study clearly exists (it has journals, books, conferences, societies), and I agree that for many (but not all) who work in that field it is as a religious or theological undertaking. That doesn’t stop it being a field of study.
And it is certainly not true that harmonising science and religion is of no interest to science. There are many religious scientists for whom it’s important – and professional scientific bodies (especially in America) make efforts to align themselves with liberal religious groups in order to show that there is no necessary conflict betweenn evolution and Christianity.
I will have to leave it at that for now or else I will spend the whole time from now till Christmas posting on these fascinating issues.
Merry Christmas…. erm, or if that’s too suggestive of Christianity… ‘Happy Holidays’!
Very often it is a problem that people want simple answers, and over-simplify narratives to fit their narrow ideological schemes. But sometimes it is a problem that a very simple issue gets obfuscated by those fearing the simple truth, unpleasant as it is for them. (As an outsider, how do you know which of these it is for a given topic?)
Unsurprisingly, I think in this case it is the second problem. It is really very simple: there is one reality out there. We either have a soul or not; natural disasters are either divine retribution or they are not; the universe has either been created by a superior intelligence or not; etc. While in practice we may face some trouble to arrive at an answer with 100% certainty, there is one simple answer to these and other similar questions, and if evidence-based rational discourse plus parsimony (shorthand: science) arrives at one answer beyond reasonable doubt and religion claims the opposite, there is a conflict.
The only religions that would not conflict with science would be one where all divine revelation turns out to be correct – how would that be for a proof of god’s existence? -, or one that does not make any factual claims. The first does not exist in practice, and the second we would not call religion. We may call it choral music, or moral philosophy, but calling it religion just to be able to say, “look, here is the 0.0000000000001% of religion that does not conflict with science, therefore it is wrong to generalize”, makes the word meaningless.
Hi Thomas,
I understand your reluctance to carry this thing further. These threads can become something of a never-ending story, with diminishing marginal returns as they go on. I do, however, want to thank you for engaging with the conversation so fully. It has been a help to me in clarifying some of my thoughts around the relationship between religion and science.
At the same time, I think it is fair to say that we’ve made some progress. First of all, if ‘science and religion’ is a religious undertaking — as I suggested in my review — then it is perhaps most properly seen as a department of theology, like historical theology, biblical theology, moral theology, etc. As such, I have no problem, except, of course, that it should then be called Religion and Science not Science and Religion, as, in fact, I proposed in my review. It is a religious concern. It may become a concern for scientists, if they also happen to be religious, like Kenneth Miller, or for educational organisations, like NCSE, which tend to take the view that it is politically useful to make religion-friendly noises in order not to scare religious people away from science. (I think, referring to NCSE’s accommodationism, that it probably serves to scare religious people away, since trying to accommodate science to religion makes it quite clear where the joints really are.) One of my concerns is that trying to accommodate religion to science tends to preserve the cultural power and influence of religion, a role in the culture which it does not, on its merits, deserve. This is a question which is more completely explored in Paul Cliteur’s The Secular Outlook. And I am now reading Mary Warnock’s, Dishonest to God, which raises some of the same issues.
Regarding the conflict between specific religious beliefs and science. It is true that you do address these in your book, though they seem to get lost in the more general project of dissolving the religious-science conflict into cultural complexity. I think it is this more general issue that is likely of most concern to people who blog on Butterflies and Wheels. How belief in miracles, for example, conflicts with science, is just a particular instance of a broader epistemological question regarding how we justify our beliefs, and how it would be best to relate scientific concerns to continuing interest in the antiquated forms of thought preserved, like bees in amber, in religious myths and related hermeneutic.
As for people who are motivated by religious belief in their scientific undertakings, this, while of some cultural interest, perhaps, is of no real consequence for science. Suppose a scientist believes that, by doing scientific research, s/he is reading from God’s book of nature (a metaphor which, like blog threads, tends to diminish in its usefulness the more it is extended). While perhaps a helpful motivation, for that person, it also provides motivation to misrepresent what is found. Since conflicts between specific religious beliefs and scientific findings are not uncommon, a religious person has more reason to qualify his or her conclusions with religious bias than a person who is motivated by purely scientific considerations. There are always reasons for trying to make observations fit presuppositions, as the sad case of Marc Hauser demonstrates. Adding another level of interpretation simply adds another source of (possible) distortion.
Once again, many thanks for engaging so fully. I think, anyway, that your last post illustrates how far you have moved from the conclusions to which you come in your book. It also tends to make it look as though the relationship between religion and science is as tenuous as I thought when I was reviewing it. Since I am retired, every day is in some sense a holiday, but I can wish you Happy Holidays! in return for your departing greeting.
A thoroughly enjoyable review and debate.
The emphasis on epistemology is critical to understanding why science develops knowledge that works while religion develops only a stuttering set of faith-based beliefs, and why the two are incompatible ways of knowing. Stick to your guns, Eric.
When religion attempts to make a truth claim about anything knowable, it does so either by borrowing from science (and often claiming it as its own revealed truth), or makes assertions and assumptions on the basis that believing faith-based beliefs is a virtue. This has the effect of creating a lovely closed circle that prohibits honest inquiry about the specific religious portion of the claims. As such, faith-based beliefs are a form of anti-intellectualism regarding a method open to inquiry to produce knowledge. When it comes to weighing the strength of the religious aspect of a claim, the use of faith to inform it is presented as a justifiable in religious terminology but such faith outside the church doors is a clear sign of ignorance in any other area of human inquiry. (Showing written materials and holding conferences about poltergeists and dowsing under auspicious star and planetary alignments does not a ‘field’ make, by the way.)
In stark contrast, the findings of science are based on a ‘best practices’ explanatory model but always wide open to revision and change if a strong enough case can be made to do so. The methodology between the two (to allow us some means to determine the comparable strengths of the contrasting claims) is not only different (what Thomas seems to want us to think of as a similar kind of ‘tradition’, which is rather ballsy of him) but stands in direct conflict if knowledge is the goal. Lack of knowledge is usually not a strong selling point about what informs a truth claim. And herein lies the crux of the religion/science compatibility issue: ignorance is not equivalent to knowledge, and no amount of tolerance and politeness and apologies will drive the square peg of religious faith into the round hole of science.
The results of such fruitless efforts are entirely predictable: whereas science attempts to find explanations through the process of critical inquiry to create knowledge that works, religion attempts to provide answers approved by some supernatural agency that looks exactly like asserting baseless faith-based beliefs. The products from the two approaches are not derived from similar kinds of ‘traditions’ at all: accepted science has an epistemology that enjoys the benefit that it works, whereas religion will always suffer from an epistemological absence that continues to try to pretend that ignorance is not only a virtue but really should be seen to be equivalent to knowledge.
Ain’t gunna happen.
Two brief points: The use of the word “scientism” always sets off alarm bells in my head, mostly because it so often ill-defined and pejorative. That it was used in connection with fundamentalists only makes it more confusing, not less suspicious.
Secondly, with regard to this paragraph:
There seems to be an equivocation here between science as in “the loose cultural collection of views and interests held in common by many scientists” and science as in “the practice which pursues knowledge about objective reality using a certain set of methods”. Harmonizing science and religion may be of practical value for individuals who want to avoid anti-theist statements. However, harmonizing science and religion appears to be of no value whatsoever in developing a methodology to produce an view of the natural world which is as accurate and complete as possible.
That is manifestly true and utterly inconsequential. Isaac Newton believed in alchemy, while Ramanujan believed that mathematical ideas were purveyed to him in his dreams by a certain goddess. I’m yet to see someone who proclaims physics to be compatible with alchemy, or that mathematics validates Hindu mythology.
‘…and others who have retained their (modified) theistic religious beliefs while fully accepting the results of science (like the Japanese and Chinese people mentioned in one of the responses above).’ (Dr Dixon, above)
Thank you, Saikat Biswas, for wading in. I had in fact responded to Dr Dixon’s latest evasion yesterday, but because I hadn’t put my name and e-mail address the computer simply obliterated what I had written and I was too irritated to try to remember what I wrote and re-write it. But you have encouraged me.
As somebody who pretends to be some sort of a scholar of religion, Dr Dixon, you should at least have some awareness of the fact that Christianity is in its essence very unlike the generally tolerant and decentralised polytheism it destroyed, a polytheism that had permitted the emergence of a brilliant tradition of rational thought about the world that Christianity also destroyed. Again, the religions of the Far East, where I live, have been Taoism, Shinto, Buddhism, Confucianism, various ancestor cults, and a variety of localised spirit cults such as those of the Na Khi in western China of which the American botanist Joseph Rock (and, following him, Ezra Pound) wrote so eloquently. These religions cannot be subsumed under that comforting little euphemism for a vague Christianity, ‘theism’, and you know it. The reason why Chinese and Japanese people have in the main little difficulty about accepting the theory of evolution is in part because none of these religions make the kind of claims both to truth and to the authority to judge scientific ideas that Christianity regularly has done and does. That was my point: Christianity (as well as Islam) makes claims that directly challenge the findings of science, and, although it has been forced, time and again, to accommodate itself to scientific findings, it has done so reluctantly and with ill grace, and it is wholly clear that it cannot cede its fundamental dogmas without destroying the basis for its existence; and were such as the present pope or the Baptist Mohler in a position to wield the kind of power a mediaeval pope had at his command, it is clear that it would go badly for science. Yes, of course, any religion at all cannot resist rational scrutiny, but such East Asian religions as I have listed are (with the exception, perhaps of certain Buddhist sects such as Soka Gakkai who have modelled themselves after Christian groups) simply not in the business of challenging science in the way that Christianity necessarily does, and they have, in general, a history of syncretism and tolerance that is quite unlike that of Christianity. Another matter is that Taoist-influenced thought has small difficulty with a universe that is in a state of flux. And another matter is that, although Chinese thought never achieved the scientific brilliance of Greek thought (though Joseph Needham, for one, certainly believes that there is such a thing as Chinese science, and, I think, has demonstrated it in his monumental ‘Science & Civilisation in China’), the Chinese philosophical tradition, to which Japanese thought owes much, has been in many ways a sober and rational one. It is for these reasons that I suggested that instead of adopting the parochial and incorrect assumption that Christianity can stand for all religions and any religion and talking about science and religion, you should confine yourself to ‘science and Christianity’ (and by extension science and Islam) because that is where the conflict really lies.
Yes ‘Science and Religion’ writings are hardly talking about anything other than the Abrahamic tradition, and that tradition does make claims that conflict with the findings of science.
Of course we find people who are religious and scientific, although if they mix these ideas they necessarily infect their science. It seems fine to allow historians and academics to study this interaction and call it ‘Science and Religion’, and pull out more nuanced interpretations; that seems like a great idea. But the fundamental conceptual incompatibility will be left unmoved by such peregrinations.
After all, as has been discussed here before, the very grade of religious belief is defined by its compatibility with science by all of us, including the religious. A fundamental religionist sticks more to doctrine in the face of scientific findings than a liberal religionist; there is an acceptance of Science and Religion’s incompatibility in these very terms.
The really frustrating part of Dixon’s really frustrating thesis is that he sincerely believes “that ’tis impudence to deny” something that so many people sincerely hold in their minds. You can write any number of dissertations on such beliefs and their effect on culture and society. But they decidedly fall outside the ambit of science.
Fundamentally, reason conflicts with authoritarianism. That’s the conflict in a nutshell.
@Tim Harris : You’re very welcome.
Just back from a long day at the British Library pretending to be a scholar – and wanted to offer a further clarification.
@Tim Harris – I’m sorry that my comments about Eastern religions were ambiguous. I was drawing a parallel between the acceptance of science by liberal Christians and also by the Eastern religionists you mentioned, not suggesting that e.g. Taoism was a theistic religion.
The following extracts from a couple of my publications suggest that perhaps we might agree more than you seem to supppose. This is my summary of the problems with the ‘science-religion’ dialogue project (from the Routledge Companion to the Study of Religion):
The first concern challenges the idea that there is really a balanced ‘dialogue’ between religion and science, or that work on religion and science has built a two-way ‘bridge’, allowing traffic to cross between theological and scientific communities. The reality seems much less balanced than either of these metaphors suggests. If it is a conversation, it is one in which science does all the talking and theology all the listening; if it is a bridge, the traffic across it seems to go just one way (compare Russell (2003), who favours the ‘bridge’ metaphor, with Drees (2003) who is more critical). It is generally scientific theories, and the philosophy of scientific method, that set the terms of the interaction, and religion and theology that are required to fit in with the theories, and to mimic the methods. Professional theologians write books and organise conferences about how their work should be shaped and constrained by the latest developments in the sciences. Professional scientists, even those with a religious commitment and a sympathy for the ‘dialogue’ project, only rarely seem to find their decisions about experimental and theoretical work being affected by theological or religious considerations. And, following on from this, some might ask whether religious traditions should not, in any case, be seek ing to take a more critical stance and speak in a more ‘prophetic’ voice when commenting on science and technology, rather than always seeking harmonious dialogue. It goes without saying that prominent scientific atheists, such as Richard Dawkins (2006), are also adamant for their own reasons that good-natured dialogue between science and religion is impossible (for the opposite point of view, see Ward 2008).
The second criticism – that the ‘religion and science’ project overlooks plurality – is a particularly important one. Too frequently in the pages of books about religion and science one encounters statements about ‘the relationship’ between two ‘disciplines’ called ‘science’ and ‘religion’, or, indeed, about building a bridge between ‘the religious community’ and ‘the scientific community’, as if these were all singular items. In reality, of course, there are, and have been historically, an almost infinitely wide array of different sciences and different religions. …
The third criticism follows on from this point. One of the ways in which discussions of science and religion are in danger of talking in misleadingly general terms rather than attending to particularities is when the terms ‘religion’ or ‘theology’ are used when what is actually being discussed is exclusively Christian religion or Christian theology. The overwhelming majority of academic contributions to the area of ‘religion and science’ in the last forty years or so have been written by individuals who profess some form of Christian faith (and of these, many are members or ministers of Protestant churches, whether Anglican, Reformed or Lutheran). The problem is not that most discussions of ‘religion and science’ are parts of specifically Christian, often Protestant, theological projects. The problem arises only when it seems that this particular context is being obscured or hidden by the use of very general language. Although talking about ‘religion’ and ‘theology’ in general terms might help to foster inclusiveness and pluralism in academic discussions, it could also have quite the opposite effect. Non-Christian readers might feel that the usage implies not an openness to plurality, but rather an arrogant assumption that ‘religion’ and ‘theology’ are synonymous with a particular kind of Christianity. And, looking at it from the other direction, members of particular religious traditions might feel that the distinctive values and beliefs of their traditions are being obliterated in general statements about an all-purpose, lowest-common-denominator modern category of ‘religion’ (Harrison 2006). For these reasons, some would say that, if the subject at hand is essentially the relationship between modern physics and Anglican theology, or between evolutionary theory and American evangelicalism, it would be best simply to say so, rather than conducting a more general discussion about ‘religion’, or ‘theology’, and ‘science’.
There is awareness in the academic field of ‘religion and science’ that non-Christian religions have generally been excluded. Members of the ‘Abrahamic’, monotheistic traditions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam), by virtue of having in common certain prophets, teachings, historical contexts and basic theological assumptions about the Creator and his creation, can engage in a degree of shared discussion about relationships between science and religion. The very general questions alluded to in the introduction to this chapter, for instance, about relationships between the book of nature and the book of scripture; between faith and reason; and between the seen and the unseen, would make some sense to Jews, Christians and Muslims alike. The answers given to those questions would differ widely, not only between these faiths, but also within each tradition, but the questions could be discussed with some integrity nonetheless. But can the dialogue be extended even further? Robert Russell, in the editorial of the first issue of Theology and Science, expresses the hope that it can. He envisages the bridge-building project being extended to connect ‘cosmology, physics, biology, and genetics and other religious traditions, such as Buddhism, Taoism, and Hinduism’ (Russell 2003: 3). However, it is hard to imagine that the preoccupations of writers in the field of ‘religion and science’ will be very easily exported beyond the pale of Western monotheism. As historians have shown, those preoccupations have arisen from a very particular set of intellectual, social and political circumstances in Western Europe and North America, especially from the seventeenth century onwards. It might be better for proponents of science–religion dialogue to focus on articulating more precisely their own particular political agendas and theological commitments, rather than trying to stretch the boundaries and the senses of ‘science’ and ‘religion’ yet further in an attempt to create a universal dialogue.
And this from the book of mine originally under review:
I have already alluded to the significant fact that talk about ‘the relationship between science and religion’ obscures the true plurality and complexity of the terms. ‘Science’ and ‘religion’ are both hazy categories with blurry boundaries, and different sciences and different religions have clearly related to each other in different ways. Mathematics and astronomy were both particularly nurtured in Islamic cultures in the middle ages, for example, where they were used to calculate the correct times of prayer and the direction of Mecca, as well as for many more secular purposes. Islamic scholars working in academies such as the House of Wisdom in Baghdad preserved, tested, and improved upon Ancient Greek medicine and optics, as well as astronomy and astrology, between the ninth and the fifteenth centuries. The motto of these scholars was: ‘Whoever does not know astronomy and anatomy is deficient in the knowledge of God.’ Their works were to be crucial sources for the revival of European learning from the later middle ages onwards.
Excluded from more mainstream European academic institutions, Jewish communities formed a particularly strong connection with the science and practice of medicine in early-modern Europe. The Roman Catholic Church, despite the high-profile difficulties caused by Galileo’s ideas, was one of the most generous sponsors of scientific research during the Renaissance, especially through the investment of the Jesuit order in astronomical observatories and experimental equipment. The relationship between modern scientific knowledge – a characteristically Western system of thought – and the religious traditions of the East, is different again. Here we might think of the interest shown by Buddhists in neuroscientific studies of the state of the brain during meditation, or of Fritjof Capra’s 1975 bestseller, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels Between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism. There is, finally, a very particular story to be told about the relationship between evolutionary biology and modern Protestant Christianity – one which we will return to below. The point is that none of these particular relationships can serve as a universal template for understanding engagements between science and religion.
Some think that the extent of oversimplification, generalisation, and reification involved in even using the phrase ‘science and religion’ makes it a non-starter as a sensible topic for academic study. I have some sympathy with this view. It is certainly true that in this book, as in most contributions to the field, the ‘religion’ under discussion is most often specifically Christianity. However, at least within the Abrahamic, monotheistic traditions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, there is enough common ground, historically, philosophically, and theologically for a more general discussion to take place. Whether it is possible or desirable to extend that discussion still further to include non-theistic or non-scriptural traditions is another question, and one which I will not explore further here. The monotheistic faiths, however, are all united by the idea that God is the author of two books – the book of nature and the book of scripture – and that the individual believer will find their understanding and their faith strengthened through the careful reading of both books. The intellectual, political, and ethical implications of that shared commitment to reading God’s words and his works have developed in comparable although far from identical ways in the three major monotheistic traditions.
@39:
The differences between the ‘different’ sciences are nowhere even remotely as stark as the differences between the ‘different’ religions. Science, broadly speaking, consists of a wide array (it’s certainly not infinite) of different specializations that broadly adhere to a wide and consistent array of tried and tested methods. On the other hand, the bewildering variety of different religions consist of credos and precepts that aim to compete for heights of absurdity despite their glaring contradictions.
@39 :
Again, utterly inconsequential. There’s nothing inherently Islamic about such calculations. Anyone with a modest knowledge of contemporary astronomy can do that (although I’m not sure how anyone can scientifically determine the correct time for prayers) without even bothering to learn about Islam. There is no such thing as Islamic mathematics or Islamic astronomy. These feats were achieved in the middle ages by people who professed themselves to be Muslims. The stability as well as general prosperity fostered by the Islamic empire of the time surely inspired those achievements. But in no way do these impressive achievements reflect on the validity of the core principles of the Islamic faith. Should we call Alan Turing’s groundbreaking work on computation a triumph of ‘homosexual mathematics’?
@ Thomas Dixon,
Sorry, but I had no idea that you had already mentioned this in your book (which I haven’t read) and which formed part of my concerns above. This is very true, however, While both have their different subcategories and eras, science gravitates toward factual based evidence, while religion tends to gravitate toward revelation or authority. And, I’m afraid, if you (rather sensibily) take this reductionist view of the two categories, you’ll see why, even with such plurity and diversity, that both are basically incompatible with each other. Science is of course about knowledge, and when you attempt to do epistemology, you need some kind of selective process, that distinguishes between truth and falsehood. Religion also does a selective process, but based on revelation or authority; that which concords with authority passes (such as the works of Aristotle and Plato or the science of gravity) and that which discords with authority gets burned or is termed heretical (heliocentricity, evolution, The entire Catholic Index of banned books).
And so the conflict is still obvious. As for the examples of religious cultures ‘nurturing’ science, I suggest that in fact cultures nurtured them (to various degrees) while religion was an interfering process. Islam during the middle-ages, as I’m sure you’re aware, was spread over various cultures each with their own cultural identity. But the truth is, whatever the religious authorities, whether in the west or east, didn’t approve of, simply got banned or forced away, hindering the concept of progress in scientific knowledge. Science can’t operate properly in such environments, and will naturally face conflicts and suppression. Hence why science stopped progressing in the post-medieval periods within Islamic territories, and why it stopped progressing within the Christian orthodox dominated middle-ages.
The idea that there is a bridge between science and theology, that appears onesided, is a good analogy. Theology is of course an epistemological enterprise, although not a religion in itself. It tries to mimic science but it simply can’t create a coherent system of truth without some basis in empirical reality. In even attempting to mimic science or scholarship, it is attempting to make coherency–following a kind of objective coherent methodology–but out of an incoherent revelatory authority. Science (especially natural science) has absolutely no interest in any revelatory authority, as you must know, but only within empiricism. This goes without saying, it’s obvious for all, including I’m sure yourself.
Where you may discover some complexity or obscurity (which never helps in epistemology) is when studying these subjects historically. There you have a case for as to why things are complex, because you’re no longer practicising a reductionist or epistemological perspective on science and religion, but an historical and human study which will naturally involve complexity and a blurring of both science and religion.
As for the three great monotheistic traditions, while each share the same God, and borrow from each other, they are all based in different authorities. In theology, which attempts to create coherency, it is no surprise that it can unite all three traditions. The problem is, that theology is not religion, and religion is always based in authority of texts or prophets and not in the authority of another religion. Hence, conflict is obvious, but only if you take off your theological and historical glasses, and understand the reductionist view (which you promoted in your BBC programme End Of God) of reason and revelation.
Can I just say, while I am a critic of yours, I think it is great that you have taken the time and effort to answer your critics here in such an open and non-hostile manner. I really hope that you understand why we ‘gnu’ atheists are so protective of science, and why we’re so critical of religion(revelation) both rationally and morally. This is the reason why we’re giving you a ‘hard time’, not because of anything personally, but because of the rather wider culture wars going on. Our enemies often class us as aggressive strident horrible people, but we’re really pussy cats.
I second what Egbert says. I disagree warmly with much of what Thomas argues, but I think his willingness to discuss it is very impressive.
Thank you, Dr Dixon, for taking the time to reply. I must confess, though, having read what you say, that I wonder why you bother with this ‘conversation’ between ‘science’ and ‘religion’ that is, as you rightly point out, no conversation at all (and it is surely a strong implication of what you have written that there cannot be such a conversation).
I was struck by this remark: ‘… some might ask whether religious traditions should not, in any case, be seeking to take a more critical stance and speak in a more “prophetic” voice when commenting on science and technology, rather than always seeking harmonious dialogue.’ I don’t know who these ‘some’ are (incidentally, I think one of the reasons for the frustrated responses you have met with here is that you write in such a way as to make it very difficult to discern whether something you write is something that you actually espouse and are advocating, or whether you are talking about something that others espouse and advocate), but the stance that is being advocated here (by former Archbishop Carey, perhaps?) is clearly not ‘critical’, in the sense of attempting to demonstrate that something is right or wrong, but is in fact a mere bullying assertion of blind ‘faith’ – that is what your ‘prophetic voice’ is – something that has afflicted the Christian world from Jerome to Luther to Newman to the present pope.
Why do you think (if in fact you do think so) that ‘dialogue’, whether harmonious or otherwise, between science and Christianity is a good thing?
[…] question of the political nature of the conflict (or non-conflict) between religion and science, in Thomas Dixon’s reply to Eric – I stand by my emphasis on the political aspects of all of this. Claims about the nature of […]
I have already stated, and will state again, my agreement with those who have thanked Dr. Dixon for taking part so fully and so fairly in this discussion. I am a bit concerned at the direction in which the conversation seems to have turned. At the heart of the question about the relationship between religion and science is the question, asked rather pointedly by Ophelia in her latest post, about the epistemological bona fides of religion. The issue of the political nature of religion vs the political involvement of science is an important one, and the difference lies, it seems to me, in the fact that, as Ophelia points out, religion is intrinsically political whereas science is only incidentally so.
We can see this, for example, in what Richard Holloway calls the one-woman Armstrong industry, where the attempt is being made to redefine religion in terms of compassion. Tony Blair is up to the same thing, and is cruising around the world on Armstrong’s coattails. The point of the theological exercise is to get as much market share for religion as possible. It has very little to do with the actual success of religion in making sense of the world, or providing meaning for life. As important as anything is the illusion of providing such personal meaning. It matters little, in one sense, how much in the process the shape of religions is deformed or moulded, so long as it provides the basis for keeping people within the institutional boundaries of the religion, so that they identify with, and thus reinforce, the religion’s (for any religion) claim to political clout. Churches don’t, for example, worry about whether they speak the truth — this is simply assumed — but about whether they attract various target audiences, like the young.
That’s one reason, I think, why liberal religion is going through a period of decline, because liberal religion, while attractive to an educated, thoughtful demographic, does not, in the view of most believers, preserve the much more important emotional dimension of religious belief. This is the motor of religious belief, and liberal religion, while preserving some aspects of religion (in some of its forms) — aspects of community, concern for issues of justice, for example — does not have the emotional drive and certainty of conviction that attracts so many people to religion in the first place. Religion provides, in its more conservative forms, a sense of belonging to a world that is intelligible in fairly simple ways, because it structures the world in terms of something that we all understand almost instinctively, namely, the world of personal relationships and social meaning.
However, when we speak about religion in relationship to other cultural projects, this kind of cozy Gemütlichkeit is forgotten, and religion becomes, suddenly, very erudite and intellectually complex, so complex, indeed, that no one seems to bother about the question of foundations. Someone above suggests that theology is just philosophy. Well, while I don’t think this is true, since at its best philosophy is a critical discipline, the contrast between what is done in theology with what is done at the more homey level of dogma and personal conviction, liturgy and devotion does help to focus on aspects of religion which have simply no relationship with what we know about the world around us, and it is a serious error to think that this aspect of religion can be ignored while we’re breathing the more rarified atmosphere of Mt. Olympus. Critics of Dawkins’ The God Delusion were fond of saying how ’19th century’ it was. That’s because Dawkins insisted on asking the epistemological questions. No matter how intellectually complex religion becomes, it’s all built on the foundation of certain key beliefs which, if they are not true, must topple the superstructure built upon them.
Take the Bible, composed of Jewish and Christian parts, which people so assiduously ignore when they are talking about Christianity (or the Qu’ran, if we are talking about Islam). These are the texts upon which the religious claims of Christianity, Judaism and Islam are based. Christianity is, you might say, a gloss on Judaism, and Islam is a gloss on both Christianity and Judaism. But the texts, and what they are really about, are the foundation. They are, however, simply human texts, writings by human beings, story-telling, poetry, even wisdom traditions (as in Proverbs, Job, Ecclesiastes, Wisdom), liturgy, myth — complex multilayered texts which cannot be traced back to assured autographs, and which have all undergone very complex histories of transmission and (in the process) transformation. Which is one reason why I have some grave concern about Dixon’s repeated claim that these three monotheisms
This is simply too facile. It is quite clear that, for Augustine, for example, the so-called ‘book of nature’ is subordinate to the ‘book of scripture’. The book of scripture, after all, contains the revelation of a god, so it forms the basic framework within which the book of nature is to be understood. But, as I said in my review, there is no evidence that a god has written anything, so the metaphor is completely misleading, especially when, as is the case, the books of scripture and their interpretations are so diverse and stand in such conflicting relationships with each other. This in itself is enough to undermine any supposed relationship between religion and science.
Einstein once said that “science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” Sam Harris says that he lived to regret this echo of Kant, but I do not think so, for in the same short essay in which he said this, he also said that the person who strikes him as religious is someone
And then he goes on to say that “the main source of the present-day conflicts between the spheres of religion and science lies in [the] concept of a personal God.” The title of the essay is: “Personal God Concept Causes Science-Religion Conflict.” And this is precisely the point that needs to be stressed. At the rarified level of some philosophical theology it might be possible to pretend as though there is no conflict between religion and science. But that level of intellectual sophistication in religion does not touch what takes place where religious individuals interface with the world and society. There, as Holloway points out in his critique of Armstrongism, there are so many things that simply cannot be given up without relinquishing the heart of religion. Jesus’ resurrection, God’s choice of a people, Mohammed’s status as a prophet speaking the very words of a god: these are all beliefs that must be held to be in some sense literally true. Without them, while communities may still exist which celebrate community in terms of stories and myths, religion becomes a purely private affair, of little more importance than the feeling of standing tall after watching a compelling movie about dignity or heroism. With them, however, religions will continue to be intrinsically political, because that’s the only way to assert the importance of beliefs which have no basis in a critical understanding of the world.
There is also another kind of conflict: internal conflict. This is the conflict inside people who sit within two different communities, who may hold two opposing ideas simultaneously. This is often termed compartmentalisation, but it’s a psychological explanation for religious liberals, or religious scientists, moderates in general, and accommodationists.
Such people can mix within two communities freely, but changing their loyalty in whatever camp they wish to mix in. Such people seem to have an inability to create coherency, as if their reductionist or rationalist methodology is not functioning. These moderates still dance to the tune of outside authority, mostly likely influenced by their human relationships, but it takes a particular strong personality to reject authority and hold a sceptical rational relationship to all knowledge.
I think the problem here is the question of where to stop. Is Mahayana Buddhism compatible with quantum chromodynamics? Is Shintoism compatible with evolutionary biology? There are thousands of religions and hundreds of scientific fields; combinatorics tells us that there are literally millions of these questions, and if we can only investigate by addressing each one of the “atomic” questions one by one, we’ll never arrive at any sort of conclusion.
This is pretty generally true of trying to arrive at a conclusion about anything. Any real-world phenomenon is the result of millions of variables with varying degrees of interdependence. And that’s why the scientific method works the way it does: by isolating the most interdependent variables and drawing conclusions about their interdependence. If you decide to start by cataloging all the relevant variables you’ll never come to any conclusions at all.
I think the commentariat here has a finger on a more fundamental problem with harmonizing religious narratives with scientific narratives: the epistemological problem. In fact, I get the sense that when B&W regulars talk about “science,” they mean to say “methods of inquiry that provide epistemological warrant for their conclusions. When we talk about incompatibility between science and religion, then, we’re talking about the fact that religious claims have no epistemological warrant except when it comes over the “science/religion bridge,” that religious claims never improve or grant the epistemological warrant of scientific claims, and that religious claims that don’t borrow epistemological warrant from science don’t have any in the first place.
To make the incompatibility more concrete, consider how religion and science reinforce truth claims. In science, truth claims are reinforced when researchers make honest attempts to disprove them and fail. This isn’t true in all cases in the real world, but it is the scientific ideal. Religion can’t rely on the same methodology of antagonistic attempts to reproduce identical results, and so truth claims are reinforced essentially by authority: the correct interpretation is whatever your pastor says it is. If you disagree, you’re part of a different religion. This is another big mark of incompatibility: conflicting truth claims in science usually lead to the elimination of a field as properly scientific. Conflicting truth claims in religion usually leads to the creation of a new religion, or at least a new tradition.
The specifics of any particular conflict between religion and science are sociological and political, but there is a more fundamental conflict between the two phenomena, and that arises from the attitude of each towards truth claims and the epistemological. I think this may be at the core of Eric MacDonald’s critique of your book, as he stated explicitly that he was disappointed by your neglect of the conflict between each phenomenon’s attitude towards epistemological warrant for its truth claims. And I think Eric cited the Index as exemplifying this conflict: the church tried to establish epistemological warrant for its truth claims by suppressing alternative truth claims, where scientific epistemology demands that each alternative truth claim be considered on its own merits and judged according to its agreement with experiment and observation (rather than orthodoxy).
Surely the designation of a sociological phenomenon as “religious” or “scientific” isn’t completely arbitrary nor is it entirely tautological. It doesn’t seem to me that it’s irreducibly historic or political either. There is something about the sciences that makes them sciences; there is something happening when field that was not considered scientific gains some degree of scientific legitimacy. Calling Buddhism or Taoism a religion means something, otherwise it really would not be wrong to say that “Trekkies” constitute a religion. We can complicate the picture as much as we like by considering science and religion as historical phenomena, but to draw any conclusions we need to engage in some degree of synthesis, to decide what it is we mean by “science” and “religion” and see whether there is some respect in which they do, in fact, conflict.
Fundamentally, a particular religion is defined by its metaphysical content; to disagree with the content is to commit heresy or follow another religion (or both). A particular science is not defined by its content. Relativity could be overthrown tomorrow and physics would still be a scientific discipline. Science isn’t defined by its metaphysical content, but by the soundness of the methods through which that content is derived or confirmed (or falsified). This seems to me such a deep difference that the two phenomena are necessarily in conflict in some sense; even if it so happens that a scientific theory and a religious doctrine happen have identical metaphysical content at any particular time, they used different methodologies to get there and in all likelihood they’ll diverge as soon as some scientific finding is overturned or supplemented through further observation and experimentation.
Why can’t we draw this conclusion about the fundamental epistemological conflict between science and religion, even if — as you rightly point out — the historical details are somewhat messier? And can we possibly understand the relationship between science and religion by only looking at the phenomena historically without regard to the philosophical presuppositions of each phenomenon? For example, a historical incident in which religion and science were sympathetic disciplines doesn’t disprove a deep conflict if the sympathy was a temporal and contingent result of mistaken scientific results being compatible with arbitrary religious results (and ceded to antipathy as the scientific conclusions are challenged and revised). How can we avoid such “false positives” without considering the problem in a more general and philosophical perspective?
@46 : Splendidly put Eric.
Good debate which pinpoints the important issues. We talked about the Cambridge Companion to Science and Religion earlier- I have put up my own review on Amazon which may be of interest. Charles Freeman
The acceptance of scientific results without the acceptance of the epistemic standards that make the results possible does not permit reconciliation between science and religion. People who submit their beliefs to scrutiny by the highest available standard using the best methods that can be found will never reconcile with people who reject such standards for their own beliefs and seek to undermine those standards whenever it conflicts with their goals.
Furthermore and as a consequence the conflict is not just between creationists and friends of science, but also extends to accommodationists and New Atheists, as we frequently see. I see the epistemic issue as the real divide here for all concerned. The politics can get messy, but I think it can also be distracting. Efforts to reconcile will either be superficial or plainly phony, since serious investigation of the differing positions will always reveal that standards of evidence, reason and truth can’t be compromised for good fellowship or any other reason.
People of good will on both sides of this issue want to reconcile personally, to work on common projects and to conduct friendships. This is the kind of reconciliation to hope for and to celebrate. Fortunately, it’s quite real and even common. We should be content with that.
I give Radhasoami Faith view of Creation Theory. In Sar Bachan (Poetry) composed by His Holiness Soamiji Maharaj the August Founder of Radhasoami Faith the details of creation and dissolution has been described very scientifically. It is written in this Holy Book: Only He Himself (Supreme Father)and none else was there. There issued forth a great current of spirituality, love and grace (In scientific terminology we may call this current as gravitational wave). This is called His Mauj (Divine Ordainment). This was the first manifestation of Supreme Being. This Divine Ordainment brought into being three regions, viz., Agam, Alakh, and Satnam of eternal bliss. Then a current emerged with a powerful sound. It brought forth the creation of seven Surats or currents of various shades and colours (in scientific terminology we may call it electromagnetic waves). Here the true Jaman or coagulant was given (in scientific terminology this coagulant may be called as weak nuclear force and strong nuclear force). Surats, among themselves, brought the creation into being.
These currents descended down further and brought the whole universe/multiverse into being i.e. black holes, galaxies etc. were born..
Newton said the speed of gravity is infinite but according to Einstein (and some nifty interstellar measurements), it most certainly is not.
But Newton is right.
We know that even the light cannot escape black holes. Why? There is only one possibility that gravitational force pulls light with greater speed than the speed of light. The speed of gravitational wave is many times higher than the speed of light at black holes. On Earth gravity is subordinate to electromagnetic wave but on black holes electromagnetic wave is subordinate to gravitational force.
The Universe includes everything that exists. In the Universe there are billions and billions of stars. These stars are distributed in the space in huge clusters. They are held together by gravitation and are known as galaxies. Sun is also a star. Various members of the solar system are bound to it by gravitation force. Gravitation force is the ultimate cause of birth and death of galaxy, star and planets etc. Gravitation can be considered as the cause of various forms of animate and inanimate existence. Human form is superior to all other forms. Withdrawal of gravitational wave from some plane of action is called the death of that form. It can be assumed that gravitation force is ultimate creator. Source of it is ‘God’. Gravitational Field is the supreme soul (consciousness) and its innumerable points of action may be called as individual soul (consciousness). It acts through body and mind. Body is physical entity. Mind can be defined as the function of autonomic nervous system. Electromagnetic waves are its agents through which it works. This can be realized through the practice of meditation and yoga under qualified meditation instruction. This can remove misunderstanding between science and religion and amongst various religions. This is the gist of all religious teachings – past, present and future..
interesting discussion and kudos to all for an even keel
I don’t know if anyone’s read this before, but it seems germaine
http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/universe/211420/the-perimeter-of-ignorance
[…] after I finished my review of Thomas Dixon’s book on Science and Religion, Denis Alexander published his very odd […]
[…] no long tomorrow for what is written today. Yet at the same time I am reminded that James Hannam, in a comment on my review of Thomas Dixon’s book, Religion and Science: A Very Short Introduction, calls it a rant, […]
[…] review of Thomas Dixon’s “Very Short Introduction” book on science and religion. It is available over at Butterflies and Wheels, where you can also find, in the Articles archive, all sorts of goodies, reviews and articles on […]
[…] Dixon’s Science and Religion: A Very Short Introduction. Though I did a review of the book which Ophelia was kind enough to put up on Butterflies and Wheels, I said then that I had difficulty keeping the structure of the argument in mind. A few days ago, […]