13 Responses to “Too many men showed up threatening violence”

• #1

  Rob

  November 19, 2023 at 3:58 pm

  So Portland Police are now on the side of Antifa? It’s so confusing. Does this mean that both the Police and Antifa hate women having rights and a voice more than Black people?
• #2

  Ophelia Benson

  November 19, 2023 at 4:02 pm

  Probably!
• #3

  Blood Knight in Sour Armor

  November 19, 2023 at 4:09 pm

  No, they’re busy with lots of other things; they don’t have the spare time to go knocking on doors over Twitter posts that UK cops do. Portland isn’t as nice a place as it was pre-pandemic (was still as pro-QT as it is now though). They’ve been critically understaffed since 2020.
• #4

  Sackbut

  November 19, 2023 at 4:28 pm

  I thought the “protesters” were described as trantifa, which I understood as an unruly mob of people professing support for “trans rights”, not necessarily having anything to do with antifa.
• #5

  Blood Knight in Sour Armor

  November 19, 2023 at 5:05 pm

  @Sackbut:

  It’s Portland, there’s probably some division between the two but you’d need a magnifying glass… Rose City Antifa is an actual organization unlike the general antifascist “movement”.
• #6

  Lady Mondegreen

  November 19, 2023 at 8:19 pm

  Lierre Keith says that they went to her home and slashed all the tires.
• #7

  Rob

  November 19, 2023 at 9:47 pm

  I made the antifa connection because a number of antifa ‘groups’, or at least social media accounts, have been very vocal about supporting trans rights and hating on terfs.
• #8

  Coel

  November 20, 2023 at 12:41 am

  @Rob:

  So Portland Police are now on the side of Antifa?

  Police in Portland and Seattle have long been on the side of Antifa. Indeed, mayors have instructed the police to allow Antifa free rein. That is, the police have often been there to keep Antifa separate from rival groups, such as the Proud Boys, but otherwise to allow Antifa to block junctions, intimidate people, attack journalists, et cetera. The Seattle CHAZ was the high point of this attitude, but the police standing by and allowing far-left activists to physically attack women is just a continuation of long-standing policy.
• #9

  Blood Knight in Sour Armor

  November 20, 2023 at 4:04 am

  How about uninformed clowns who don’t live here not pretend they understand local conditions, including police? I’ve been following the trials and failures of PPD for years. On the side of Antifa they ain’t…

  And I really do hate to victim blame here, but getting beat up was the inevitable result of real feminists protesting in the heart of enemy territory. Our police here find it difficult to deal with robberies and murder at current staffing levels…
• #10

  Ophelia Benson

  November 20, 2023 at 4:29 am

  In fact I saw some tweets later that said WDI does this as a matter of policy. I don’t know what to think about that. The idea is that they know they’re going to attract violence and they want to, to demonstrate that the violence happens. Ok but the violence shouldn’t happen. Yes but protesters shouldn’t be deliberately set up for attack. That’s the discussion.
• #11

  James Garnett

  November 20, 2023 at 9:24 am

  On a related note, they slashed Lierre Keith’s tires in the middle of the night, she mentioned on facebook.
• #12

  James Garnett

  November 20, 2023 at 9:24 am

  Oh, Lady Mondegreen already beat me to that!
• #13

  Your Name's not Bruce?

  November 20, 2023 at 1:49 pm

  And I really do hate to victim blame here, but getting beat up was the inevitable result of real feminists protesting in the heart of enemy territory.

  In fact I saw some tweets later that said WDI does this as a matter of policy. I don’t know what to think about that. The idea is that they know they’re going to attract violence and they want to, to demonstrate that the violence happens. Ok but the violence shouldn’t happen. Yes but protesters shouldn’t be deliberately set up for attack. That’s the discussion.

  If the women know violence will happen, and they’re psychologically prepared for that, and not inviting or suggesting attendance by anyone who is unaware and unprepared to join them under these terms, I see that as a legitimate means of protesting and making a point. Wasn’t this approach of non-violent resistance exactly that used by Gandhi and King, and that those using this strategy did so with full awareness of what they were getting themselves into?

  Of course the choice to respond to these women with violence is the responsibility of those who so respond. They’re not engaging in “self defence” if the women themselves aren’t assaulting them. A public place isn’t “enemy territory,” or at least it shouldn’t be. Certainly there’s a huge level of risk involved in using this tactic. You’re ultimately counting on things that are not under your control, and may never be forthcoming.

  You’re hoping that what you are doing is going to be seen by or reported to people who will take up your cause. Perhaps not to the same degree of personal risk, but at least to the extent that they intervene on your behalf with others who have the power to make the changes you wish to see happen. Given the current state of captured media, truthful reporting about feminist concerns over trans “rights” is far from certain. Being ignored completely, or being branded as right-wing bigots seems a more likely result than a sympathetic (or even a neutral, honest broker) report of your efforts.

  But the main thing that nonviolent resistance counts on is the humanity of one’s opponents; it’s their hearts and minds you want to change, and that they will do so by seeing your own humanity. It’s a far from certain bet, at once noble and foolhardy. How likely is it that you’re going to induce such a conversion experience in the hearts of those screaming in your face and kicking you in the head is a good question. A better one might be whether such experiences are going to occur in sufficient numbers and at a rate high enough to come before the martyrdom of someone on your own side.