Funny that. We’re told by some that trans is real because intersex* people are real, and intersex people are totally not male and not female but something completely different, and trans is exactly like intersex, and yet this asshole was totally able to “have children”, i.e. inseminate a woman and cause pregnancy in her, as men do. Somehow the argument “intersex, therefore trans” seems to fall apart, eh?
*Yes, I know, people with DSDs. I would usually use that term, but here I’m speaking the language of the enemy for effect.
Well, GW, before Josh sent a link to me explaining how trans and DSD/VSD have nothing to do with each other I was quite certain that it was all part of the same thing. It’s really easy to be confused about but your post, while facetious, really does reflect the thinking of many trans supporters on the subject. Some people want to learn, try to sort the confusion but others find it a bit too daunting and just decide it’s easier to accuse unbelievers of hatred and transphobia.
I know, Mike. That’s why I wrote it. I have a friend who doesn’t know much about the trans movement, trans ideology, or people that call themselves trans, but he insists that it’s real because DSDs are real, and that if I say otherwise I’m just a science-denying fool, no different from a climate denier.
And before I really learned about what “trans” is (or claims to be), while I never believed that the claims of pre-op trans people made a lick of sense, I assumed that the operations really gave the patient the fully accurate, if not functioning, genitalia of the opposite sex, and therefore, if intersex people are ambiguous to define, maybe it’s ambiguous to define post-op trans people: chromosomes of one sex, gentialia of the other. Not that they were the same thing from any objective point of view, but that we could learn a lesson of how potentially to define post-op trans people from how we define intersex people. But then I learned that (a) “intersex” is a misleading term, because everyone is either male or female, usually immediately recognizable (even in people with DSDs), and (b) the trans surgeries create horrific monstrosities, not the genitalia of the opposite sex.
It’s a double bind of perversion. These AGPs can’t proceed by any other means than by forcing other people to participate in their kinky fantasy of being really women. A corollary of that kinky fantasy is that they must insist – and others must agree – that some men are born being really women inside (because those afflicted cannot by any means admit that it’s just a paraphilia that overcomes them at some point in life). The consequence of that insistence is that some young boys must be sacrificed, and those sacrifices themselves become a form of porn for the AGP. Men who have enjoyed all the privileges of manhood, up to and including fatherhood, and who have then bullied all those around them into affirming that they are really women, will then jerk off to the idea of having forced the castration of boys. There is no better place in the world for an AGP to get his jollies than as the Surgeon General of the United States.
Private boys’ school graduate, bar mistvah’d, former linebacker, father, confirmed as a man in more ways than most men. But he needed something else, he needed to chase his paraphilia. Women’s clothing gave him a boner, and what kept him jolly was not viagra but forcing everyone around him to call him “Rachel.” He followed his paraphilia all the way to Washington, where he can compel the national press on a daily basis to fluff his kink. Where he can make a real contribution to the forced feminization and castration of boys, and the mutilation of girls. Woman of the year. AGPs everywhere must be jealous, though appreciative.
GW, as I understand it, all intersex conditions are DSDs, but not all DSDs are intersex. This is because DSDs – differences of sex development – cover all oddities of sexed anatomy, while intersexed conditions are only those that involve the presence of male and female traits on the same person. Possibly narrower still, this might only refer to those that have the karyotype of one sex (XX, XY) and the phenotype (anatomy, visible traits) of the other sex.
That said, this area of terminology has become politicised in recent years; combine that with euphemism creep and suddenly there is a wide range of interpretation of what any of the terms mean.
The forced teaming of people with so-called “intersex” conditions with the Trans was in order to allow the latter to pilfer the “assigned (sex) at birth terminology employed by the former. This “inclusion” is also the basis for the concept of “sex is a spectrum,” if people with DSDs defect from the “umbrella”, both those concepts are lost to trans ideology. Still, neither is proof that humans can change sex, which is why trans activism must always reach for the clownfish. (Clownfish aren’t proof either, but what the hell, use them anyway: it’s all part of the Trans Gish Gallop.)The drafting of DSD people into the “movement” is to obscure and confuse, not clarify and explain. It’s as much of an argumentary backstop as genderists can offer, and not a very good one at that.
Funny that. We’re told by some that trans is real because intersex* people are real, and intersex people are totally not male and not female but something completely different, and trans is exactly like intersex, and yet this asshole was totally able to “have children”, i.e. inseminate a woman and cause pregnancy in her, as men do. Somehow the argument “intersex, therefore trans” seems to fall apart, eh?
*Yes, I know, people with DSDs. I would usually use that term, but here I’m speaking the language of the enemy for effect.
Well, GW, before Josh sent a link to me explaining how trans and DSD/VSD have nothing to do with each other I was quite certain that it was all part of the same thing. It’s really easy to be confused about but your post, while facetious, really does reflect the thinking of many trans supporters on the subject. Some people want to learn, try to sort the confusion but others find it a bit too daunting and just decide it’s easier to accuse unbelievers of hatred and transphobia.
I know, Mike. That’s why I wrote it. I have a friend who doesn’t know much about the trans movement, trans ideology, or people that call themselves trans, but he insists that it’s real because DSDs are real, and that if I say otherwise I’m just a science-denying fool, no different from a climate denier.
And before I really learned about what “trans” is (or claims to be), while I never believed that the claims of pre-op trans people made a lick of sense, I assumed that the operations really gave the patient the fully accurate, if not functioning, genitalia of the opposite sex, and therefore, if intersex people are ambiguous to define, maybe it’s ambiguous to define post-op trans people: chromosomes of one sex, gentialia of the other. Not that they were the same thing from any objective point of view, but that we could learn a lesson of how potentially to define post-op trans people from how we define intersex people. But then I learned that (a) “intersex” is a misleading term, because everyone is either male or female, usually immediately recognizable (even in people with DSDs), and (b) the trans surgeries create horrific monstrosities, not the genitalia of the opposite sex.
It’s a double bind of perversion. These AGPs can’t proceed by any other means than by forcing other people to participate in their kinky fantasy of being really women. A corollary of that kinky fantasy is that they must insist – and others must agree – that some men are born being really women inside (because those afflicted cannot by any means admit that it’s just a paraphilia that overcomes them at some point in life). The consequence of that insistence is that some young boys must be sacrificed, and those sacrifices themselves become a form of porn for the AGP. Men who have enjoyed all the privileges of manhood, up to and including fatherhood, and who have then bullied all those around them into affirming that they are really women, will then jerk off to the idea of having forced the castration of boys. There is no better place in the world for an AGP to get his jollies than as the Surgeon General of the United States.
Private boys’ school graduate, bar mistvah’d, former linebacker, father, confirmed as a man in more ways than most men. But he needed something else, he needed to chase his paraphilia. Women’s clothing gave him a boner, and what kept him jolly was not viagra but forcing everyone around him to call him “Rachel.” He followed his paraphilia all the way to Washington, where he can compel the national press on a daily basis to fluff his kink. Where he can make a real contribution to the forced feminization and castration of boys, and the mutilation of girls. Woman of the year. AGPs everywhere must be jealous, though appreciative.
GW, as I understand it, all intersex conditions are DSDs, but not all DSDs are intersex. This is because DSDs – differences of sex development – cover all oddities of sexed anatomy, while intersexed conditions are only those that involve the presence of male and female traits on the same person. Possibly narrower still, this might only refer to those that have the karyotype of one sex (XX, XY) and the phenotype (anatomy, visible traits) of the other sex.
That said, this area of terminology has become politicised in recent years; combine that with euphemism creep and suddenly there is a wide range of interpretation of what any of the terms mean.
Is there another, less misleading term for the subset of DSD that was historically called intersex?
GW: Ambiguous genitalia? It’s complicated, of course… this summary may be useful in sorting through terminology of DSDs: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK557435/
The forced teaming of people with so-called “intersex” conditions with the Trans was in order to allow the latter to pilfer the “assigned (sex) at birth terminology employed by the former. This “inclusion” is also the basis for the concept of “sex is a spectrum,” if people with DSDs defect from the “umbrella”, both those concepts are lost to trans ideology. Still, neither is proof that humans can change sex, which is why trans activism must always reach for the clownfish. (Clownfish aren’t proof either, but what the hell, use them anyway: it’s all part of the Trans Gish Gallop.)The drafting of DSD people into the “movement” is to obscure and confuse, not clarify and explain. It’s as much of an argumentary backstop as genderists can offer, and not a very good one at that.