Sorry if you don’t like all this punching
This guy is very hostile to women.
It is of course in no way “a logical consequence” of Allison Bailey’s view that humans can’t change sex that “a lot of people die.” All people die, and Allison Bailey’s entirely familiar and everyday view that men are not women isn’t going to hasten that (also familiar and everyday and biological reality-based) fact.
Note the radical change from “the logical consequence [of her advocacy and views] is that a lot of people die” and “helping to cause the possible deaths of trans people.” The first claim is that Allison’s advocacy and views will necessarily and certainly result in the death of a lot of people, while the second claim is that they help cause possible deaths. The second claim walks back the first at three points: help cause, possible, and the omission of “a lot of” before “people.” Is Kaveney too stupid even to notice the difference? Or too sly to acknowledge it? I don’t know, but he’s a piece of work either way.
So male, that aggression coupled with righteous certainty. Forget about the clothes and makeup and wig, Roz, and focus on the entitlement and misogyny.
Then your principles are shit. On top of that, You wouldn’t know the truth if it presented you its business card on a silver platter. Alison Bailey has probably done a lot more thinking about this than you have. I would trust her principles and her grasp of the truth over yours.
And the picky ass shit they get off on. Not putting a space between trans and woman? Horrors! How can they be expected not to kill themselves if you don’t put the space? In one of my writing groups, one of the writers got lambasted for using “transgendered” instead of “transgender”. I suppose that’s because the “ed” makes it sound like something was done, something changed, and they are claiming nothing has changed. Yeah, right, it makes a big fucking difference.
Roz professes to be concerned by climate change (how that equates with supposed transphobia is muddled in his message; I presume because the fact that we agree with part of the opinion of the right regarding transgender – i.e. transwomen are not women – means that we agree and work with every goddamn idiotic idea they have). So if climate change is a big deal, he could actually do something useful to work against it. No, he gets his jollies trolling women on the internet and trying to force them to accede to his delusions.
Myth Kaveney is, if you’ll pardon the expression, a fucking logic-leaping idiot! She isn’t the only one, of course: the unexplained leap of logic is a familiar tactic now. It needs a phallacy name, but I’m not sure how to pronounce an argument from —–.
It’s the tactic that PZ uses when he says that sex is complicated, there are people with chromosone combinations that don’t fit the xx/xy standard—–so TWAW. It’s obvious that he isn’t suggesting that all transgender people have such a condition and he doesn’t argue for a physical cause of transgender, but there is never an explanation of exactly what does link atypical chromosones with transgender.
Myth Kaveney is pulling the same trick here, claiming (I think: that particular paragraph is very badly phrased and punctuated and very hard to understand) that being in agreement with some on the right over trans issues makes one complicit in potential deaths from climate change and COVID.
There is no logical link between not believing that a person’s self-image alters material reality and people dying from climate change or COVID, no logical link between not believing the claim and transgender people dying, and no link between transgender people dying* and climate/COVID-related deaths.
‘You don’t believe that TWAW, people on the political Right also hold that view—–so you are complicit in transgender deaths—–you are also complicit in climate-related and COVID deaths because you potentially support the UK government’s transphobic policies that don’t even exist but might one day’ is one Hell of a dishonest, confusing and ridiculous, multi-layered argument from —–.
* cause of death presumably being lack of validation.
So, we must accept the science of climate change – but we must not accept the science of sex. Got it.
I wasn’t aware that science was served in a cafeteria.
At least he admits he has the principles of a troll.
Roj, we must accept that the major cause of climate change is transphobia, the rest of climate science is clearly transphobic since it has nothing to say about protecting trans from the effects of global warming. Which means that climate science is also a contributory factor in climate change and has to be stopped (sorry, iknklast).
At least, that’s one plausible reading of that mess of tweets.
Counter argument:
Trans advocacy in progressive political parties drives people who would support a progressive party to not vote or to vote for conservative parties, but doesn’t win enough new voters to compensate. Thus trans advocacy causes conservative parties to win and is thus contributes to climate change, covid mishandling, human rights abuses, …
Equally honest, right?
How about Argument from Saltation?
AoS, as for stopping climate science, there are many in my community who would happily leap on any excuse. Transphobic? Well, I don’t like trans, but we don’t want this transphobic climate science, if you know what I mean.
Is that even a sentence? What’s he trying to say?
I figured it was typos, like the one I made in the post that I just fixed. But maybe it’s not, maybe it’s incoherence inside the head.
My guess is: The Right is responsible for increased COVID-19 deaths (than the commenter believes would have occurred under the leadership of The Left), and for increased deaths under climate change (same proviso as the first), therefore if “transphobia” motivates any of The Left to support/vote for The Right, then we are complicit in COVID-19 and climate change deaths. The commenter feels that we should swallow our “transphobia” and vote for/support The Left anyway, because COVID-19 and climate change are greater issues.
Mind you, if this reading is actually what he means, then apparently all manner of actions that are objectionable to us may be bolted on to The Left And Its Causes because other things are more important and override all else.
‘It’s the tactic that PZ uses when he says that sex is complicated, there are people with chromosone combinations that don’t fit the xx/xy standard—–so TWAW.’
I may have mentioned here before that I was fortunate enough to get my hands on a library copy of this book:
http://galileowaswrong.com/the-book/
(surprised, but maybe not on second thought, at how far afield ILL had to go to fetch it for me) which essentially uses the same argument. ‘Many issues in astronomy and cosmology are still unsettled and unclear, and astronomers and cosmologists have lots of questions without definite answers…therefore the sun goes around the earth.’
Maddog1129 – it identifies as a sentence, so who are you to say it’s not ;)
And of course it takes a great leap to assume that “transphobic” members of “The Left” voted in great numbers for “The Right”. I know a great number of people who don’t buy into trans dogma, but are progressive in pretty much every way (and, IMHO, in that way, as well, since trans dogma is regressive, not progressive). NONE of them voted for “The Right”. I know we had discussions here as to whether to vote for people who put their pronouns in their profiles, but I suspect most of us (that are able to vote in the US) resisted the overwhelming urge to vote for total chaos and destruction and managed to pull the lever for Biden. (Does anyone actually pull a lever anymore? I did back in the early 1980s, but haven’t since about the time of Bush 41).
Which means we are NOT complicit in the additional COVID deaths unless we refused to wear our masks or handed out woo to persuade people not to listen to doctors; I suspect that is more common among the woke than the ‘TERFs’. We are no more complicit in climate change than anyone else; the woke often drive cars, ride airplanes, eat food, etc, doing the things that help cause climate change; the TERFs are probably very similar in terms of the reductions we have made, or increases we have chosen not to make, to bring down CO2 emissions. So, complicit sort of, but certainly no more than our woke siblings.
Again they engage in hyperbole without evidence, and don’t give a damn about truth and facts. But then, that’s what their entire worldview is based on.
Can I just say I love you “guyz”. B&W has the best commentariate. I am a male and don’t have the degree of skin in these battles as many of the women here do, but the sheer ILLOGIC of the woke left just drives me nuts. And no, I did not vote for Trump. I drive too much, still eat meat, etc., but at least I didn’t have kids :)
So I love the discussion and posts here I can’t even visit some of the sites I used to visit because the Trans Mythology is so ingrained (even as I used to love some of the discussion over at We Hunted The Mammoth).
You’re more than welcome to say that!
2nd Brian M and @Iknklast yeah I miss that nice solid chunk! pulling levers. Growing up during the 70s my mother was an election volunteer (eventually the judge) at our local poll and I have fond memories of taking snacks and meals to the polling station multiple times during election days and can still hear all those mechanical votes being made. If I’m able to retire while still mobile I hope to follow her example.
@iknklast, not only did I wear my mask, I sewed and distributed more than 50 more masks, and I’ve volunteered for The Greens (in Australia) at every election for 20 years, I recycle, rarely fly (fewer than 10 times in my life), have solar panels (11 years and counting) and an efficient car, use reusable cloth shopping bags and menstrual products (some of which I made myself from upcycled pajamas), planted approximately 20 trees at my house, vote Left despite my objections to trans nonsense defining me out of legally coherent existence (despite my continued actual and material existence) and more. I am not accidentally on The Left, I belong here. In these matters, they have left me, not I them.
Brian M:
You don’t want to hang out with us, we are not the cool kids.
We’re the trans cool kids.
Please, Ophelia, that’s ‘transcool’. The space is oppressive.