Guest post: Once the opportunities are there, women are interested
Originally a comment by Screechy Monkey on They can’t see what they can’t see.
I get frustrated with the way this debate gets framed. It’s not that the “ideas” that Damore and his ilk promote are “off limits,” as Coyne would have it. It’s that they are such inferior ideas when it comes to explaining our present reality.
I have no quarrel with the abstract notion that women and men may differ, whether biologically or for culture-driven reasons that we don’t wish to change, in ways that mean that not every profession will end up with a 50/50 split of men and women even when we have achieved complete and utter Gender Equality Utopia. Call this the Gender Differences Hypothesis.
What I do quarrel with is the claim (sometimes explicit, sometimes implied) that all observable deviations from a 50/50 split can be explained by the GDH, and therefore we can declare that discrimination is trivial or non-existent and that we are already in Gender Equality Utopia. Not when virtually all of those deviations from a 50/50 split seem, curiously, to fall in such a way that men are disproportionately represented in those professions that are most powerful, well-compensated, and respected. Not when we have all sorts of scientifically rigorous, peer-reviewed research that show that (e.g.) the same behavior that is perceived as strong leadership from a man is seen as bitchy and pushy from a woman, that women somehow got hired more often for symphonies when auditions were made gender-blind, that women professors are discriminated against on student evaluations.
You know — the sort of hard scientific evidence that critical thinking scientists claim to value over feelings and anecdotes and folk legends. Unless those folk legends involve speculation about how women like pink because their evolutionary forebears handled the berry-picking.
Back when the United States passed Title IX and required that colleges receiving federal funds provide equal access to athletic programs for women, there were many who declared that this was absurd because women just weren’t as interested in sports as men, it was obvious, and trying to force it to be otherwise was an exercise in “social engineering.” Well, it turns out that women and girls were a lot more interested in sports than they were generally given credit for. Once those opportunities were provided, college women were interested. And younger girls, given something to aspire to, got interested, too.
Twenty years ago, if asked about these things, I probably would have agreed with the Damores and Blackfords and Coynes of the world. The reason I changed my mind isn’t because I decided to put feelings or abstract utopian goals ahead of cold hard facts; it was that I looked at the cold hard facts and realized that some of my assumptions were wrong.
To circle back to the original point (finally!): the GDH isn’t “off limits” any more than “God did it” is “off limits” as an explanation of the creation and diversity of life forms on this planet. It just comes up short as an explanation.
Screechy, I think I love you.
Just lie down for a while; it’ll pass.
But thanks!
Excellent observations!
Rob:
Source please, and citation.
;-)
Omar, I think you need to direct that at Screechy ;-)
(hyperbole or not, it sums up the situation rather pithily)
I wanted to buy my son 1 lb weights to help his shoulders for swimming. Can anyone guess what the only color for 1 lb weights is? It’s not blue.
I’m assuming from the emoticon that Omar was joking, but just in case anyone wants to entertain himself (not herself, because you gals are too busy gathering berries), I was not exaggerating.
Kevin, I look at toys my friends are buying for their kids. They are far more gendered than the ones we played with as kids. In fact, as one of mu friends buys vast quantities of Lego for his son, I found old 1980’s (I think) add for Lego that showed both girls and boys playing with the stuff. Their clothing is also quite unisex by modern standards.
Rob – that can’t be true, because one you my young male friends (who was born in 1992) has explained (make that mansplained) to me that things were much more gendered in the 1980s than they are now. In fact, he explained to me in great detail what it was really like to be a woman in the 1980s. I guess the fact that I was a woman, married, college graduate professional with a child (my son is 10 years older than this young man) in the 1980s does not qualify me to actually know what it was like to be a woman in the 1980s. I must wait for some young man who was born in 1992 to tell me the real story behind my life.
@7, how anyone could publish a studies claiming that and not die of shame I have no idea.
Iknklast, how do you resist the temptation to smack that young friend of yours in the face with a brick? For that matter, why hasn’t every male on the planet been smothered by pillow in their sleep?
From the link in @7
“Going back to our ‘savannah’ days, we would have a natural preference for a clear blue sky, because it signalled good weather. Clear blue also signals a good water source.”
And there was me thinking that if your water source looks blue you had best not drink it.
Of course if men had turned out to prefer red, that would be the blood spurting from the mammoth they just speared. Or something.
And meanwhile in Tonga…
https://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/352918/outrage-in-tonga-over-apparent-ban-on-girls-playing-rugby
I’m a bit further from my pension than McCabe, and the young man is a colleague. The answer that plagues women everywhere who want to step forward – I need the job.
Oh well, fair enough. Lets hope that life, or a girlfriend, takes care of it for you.