Cheated woman browbeaten into apologizing to the man who beat her in unfair fight. The fact that he smirked at her and pawed her breast after the fight is just the humiliation he gets to inflict on her for fun. I guess they are holding her credentials to ever fight again hostage. They may also be threatening to demand titles and prize money from past bouts (which may already be spent) back.
Itâs pretty infuriating and disgusting. A lot of people I otherwise respect and agree with, and who will endlessly discuss nuance of many things, when it comes to this issue call anything other than total capitulation bigotry. I saw a bunch of them either directly trashing JKR today or reposting someone criticising her for âtransphobiaâ. Interesting, since she never claimed the Algerian boxer was trans. That person even described the boxer as a cis-woman and linked to a study about people with two specific forms of DSD. At the same time they claimed that there was no evidence the boxer is DSD.
Although the issues are perhaps adjacent, it is probably not useful to think of this situation in comparison to transgender male athletes jumping across to compete in women’s sport, such as Lia Thomas or whatever that ex-professor calls himself now. For readily understandable reasons, intersex athletes like Semenya and apparently Khelif have always understood themselves as female, and eligible to compete as such. That desire to continue to do so is understandable. and one of those situations where there is no resolution that is perfectly fair. But if women’s sport is to have any integrity, the category has to be protected. If it isn’t, it will start to collapse.
That desire to continue to do so is understandable. and one of those situations where there is no resolution that is perfectly fair.
Competitive sports are sex-divided for very good and valid physical reasons, resulting from the unavoidable fact that not every contestant can be a winner. In order for someone to win, someone else has to lose, and without someone losing, nobody could win. (GWF Hegel would agree.)
I was told a story once that a traveller or anthropologist or someone went to study Arctic Eskimos. He introduced a group of them to some sort of game like checkers or tiddleywinks. As soon as his hosts realised that someone had to lose, they were reportedly horrified. Their society was toally 100% co-operative, and their very survival depended on that.
That IMHO also helps explain why their are no Eskimo teams in the Olympics..
The IOC this morning made a statement about Khelif that was later corrected:
CORRECTION
In todayâs IOC â Paris 2024 press briefing, IOC President Bach said:
âBut I repeat, here, this is not a DSD case, this is about a woman taking part in a womenâs competition, and I think I have explained this many times.â
What was intended was
:
âBut I repeat, here, this is not a transgender case, this is about a woman taking part in a womenâs competition, and I think I have explained this many times.â
They know Khelif is male then. They also know this is a scandal and they’re just trying to evade the consequences as long as they can.
For readily understandable reasons, intersex athletes like Semenya and apparently Khelif have always understood themselves as female, and eligible to compete as such.
This is apparently false regarding Semenya, and, I suspect, regarding Khelif as well. I quote from here:
[T]here’s no evidence that Semenya was “raised female.” His parents seemed to have raised him to be a very special boy.
Books for children and young adults have portrayed Semenya as a race and gender activist, a hero, an athlete who overcame bullying to find her identity and confidence on the track. She was the fourth child in a family of five daughters and a son…
Her parents, Semenya said, understood that her life would be uncommon and prepared her for it. They let her wear boysâ clothing, take on a household role traditionally reserved for sons and join a teenage boysâ soccer team.
She spoke affectionately of her younger days of playing on a dusty field in a rural village, and being celebrated, not isolated, for standing out, for being singular and distinctive.
âAs a kid, youâre walking home to the sports ground, youâre playing with boys and your childhood becomes marvelous because everyone loves you because youâre different,â Semenya said with a grin.
If you delve deep into the Semenya story, the standard tropes about Semenya being raised as a girl and subjected to bullying as a child turn out to be a whole bunch of lies.
I wonder how much pressure was put on Carini to do this? From both the IOC, and her own team.
Where did Carini say it’s fair? I think that’s Colin’s transterpretation.
Cheated woman browbeaten into apologizing to the man who beat her in unfair fight. The fact that he smirked at her and pawed her breast after the fight is just the humiliation he gets to inflict on her for fun. I guess they are holding her credentials to ever fight again hostage. They may also be threatening to demand titles and prize money from past bouts (which may already be spent) back.
Itâs pretty infuriating and disgusting. A lot of people I otherwise respect and agree with, and who will endlessly discuss nuance of many things, when it comes to this issue call anything other than total capitulation bigotry. I saw a bunch of them either directly trashing JKR today or reposting someone criticising her for âtransphobiaâ. Interesting, since she never claimed the Algerian boxer was trans. That person even described the boxer as a cis-woman and linked to a study about people with two specific forms of DSD. At the same time they claimed that there was no evidence the boxer is DSD.
Although the issues are perhaps adjacent, it is probably not useful to think of this situation in comparison to transgender male athletes jumping across to compete in women’s sport, such as Lia Thomas or whatever that ex-professor calls himself now. For readily understandable reasons, intersex athletes like Semenya and apparently Khelif have always understood themselves as female, and eligible to compete as such. That desire to continue to do so is understandable. and one of those situations where there is no resolution that is perfectly fair. But if women’s sport is to have any integrity, the category has to be protected. If it isn’t, it will start to collapse.
Naif:
Competitive sports are sex-divided for very good and valid physical reasons, resulting from the unavoidable fact that not every contestant can be a winner. In order for someone to win, someone else has to lose, and without someone losing, nobody could win. (GWF Hegel would agree.)
I was told a story once that a traveller or anthropologist or someone went to study Arctic Eskimos. He introduced a group of them to some sort of game like checkers or tiddleywinks. As soon as his hosts realised that someone had to lose, they were reportedly horrified. Their society was toally 100% co-operative, and their very survival depended on that.
That IMHO also helps explain why their are no Eskimo teams in the Olympics..
The IOC this morning made a statement about Khelif that was later corrected:
They know Khelif is male then. They also know this is a scandal and they’re just trying to evade the consequences as long as they can.
Good grief.
This is apparently false regarding Semenya, and, I suspect, regarding Khelif as well. I quote from here:
[T]here’s no evidence that Semenya was “raised female.” His parents seemed to have raised him to be a very special boy.
Books for children and young adults have portrayed Semenya as a race and gender activist, a hero, an athlete who overcame bullying to find her identity and confidence on the track. She was the fourth child in a family of five daughters and a son…
Her parents, Semenya said, understood that her life would be uncommon and prepared her for it. They let her wear boysâ clothing, take on a household role traditionally reserved for sons and join a teenage boysâ soccer team.
She spoke affectionately of her younger days of playing on a dusty field in a rural village, and being celebrated, not isolated, for standing out, for being singular and distinctive.
âAs a kid, youâre walking home to the sports ground, youâre playing with boys and your childhood becomes marvelous because everyone loves you because youâre different,â Semenya said with a grin.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/28/sports/olympics/caster-semenya-olympics-gender.html
If you delve deep into the Semenya story, the standard tropes about Semenya being raised as a girl and subjected to bullying as a child turn out to be a whole bunch of lies.