“I’m going to really unhappy and sad, what else can I do about it?”
Apparently she does seek other actions. She expects the boss to go along with her, for this other woman to be reprimanded or fired or perhaps arrested.
The hyperbole of how someone else using normal English is “just like” a close friend attempt to kill you in a sneaky and painful way; wow. There are so many bad things that could happen to someone that most people might consider at a level lower than murderous betrayal, but apparently misgendering via normal English is worse than all those things.
Sackbut, Holmes, The “knife twisted into your back” line is Dr. Jebra’s–that’s a parody account.
The very sad young woman theybie is, unfortunately, all too real. Though she doesn’t say those words, she certainly has got herself extremely upset over a wanton act of heartless misgendering. O the huthemity.
Part of becoming a mature adult is learning to respect differences, let small things go, and draw your happiness from an inner sense of your own self worth instead of the opinions of other people. “This is my IDENTITY” she says as if it’s a big deal. No, it’s not. This preoccupation with needing others to mirror back the Ideal You is a stage of early adolescence. The young woman sounds like a child. The transgender doctrine forces people who identify as transgender into a permanent state of immaturity.
Imagine the alternative scenario: trans people usually prefer to be referred to by certain pronouns, but if the sex-related ones are used instead — meh, that’s okay. “Whatever others are comfortable with” They recognize it doesn’t change who they are and so they strive to rise above caring what others say or think. This is the standard expectation they hold out for themselves, and may sometimes struggle to meet in order to be their best self.
Why couldn’t it be like this?That level of assurance and generosity shouldn’t be inconceivable. And yet it’s virtually unthinkable as practiced because their identities are notoriously fragile, easily bruised, and completely wrapped up in being acknowledged, validated, and seen as whatever gender they have thrown their personalities out for. The narrative is that it hurts to be misgendered. The more sensitive you are, the more genuine the trans identity — and the more it will hurt. It is known.
When we’re set off-kilter, we follow a script. She no doubt sincerely believes she’s not following a script because it doesn’t feel fake. Her pain and suffering over being misgendered is indeed genuine, but it’s not naturally derived from the situation. It’s coming from the script, and the role is that of a perpetual teenager.
Part of becoming a mature adult is learning to respect differences, let small things go, and draw your happiness from an inner sense of your own self worth instead of the opinions of other people.
This preoccupation with needing others to mirror back the Ideal You is a stage of early adolescence. The young woman sounds like a child. The transgender doctrine forces people who identify as transgender into a permanent state of immaturity.
Or, as the Buddhist teacher Shantideva put it:
Where would there be leather enough to cover the entire world? With just the leather of my sandals, it is as if the whole world were covered. Likewise, I am unable to restrain external phenomena, but I shall restrain my own mind.
Transgenderism is telling its adherents that it is right and proper that the world be covered in leather for their benefit. Anyone even mentioning sandals or any kind of footware is to be condemned as a transphobic bigot plotting trans genocide.
“Prepare the child for the road — not the road for the child.”
In The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure Lukianoff and Haidt talk about a sea change in child rearing and education which threw out this idea of instilling resilience and toughness for a more sensitive, concerned, child-centered approach — and as a consequence kids and adolescents became anxious and depressed. The book came out in 2018 and doesn’t really mention transgender issues, but the fragility and sense of entitlement they describe possibly hits its apotheosis there.
The narrative is that it hurts to be misgendered. The more sensitive you are, the more genuine the trans identity — and the more it will hurt.
This is an excellent observation. Combine that with the “the more outrageous the claim I support, the greater the demonstrated strength of my belief/faith/devotion/worthiness/allyship,” strain in trans ideology, and you’ve explained a lot of the behaviour we see. Works for other religious beliefs too; switch out “misgendering” with “desacration” of holy books, relics, symbols, etc. and you’ve got plenty fuel for performative outrage, with the same urge to punish. The more extreme the reaction, the greater one’s faith.
Sastra – It’s a funny thing, but just yesterday I was nudged by something, probably something here, to re-read a favorite children’s classic which is about, precisely, the preferability of raising children to be resilient and capable rather than fragile and neurotic. It’s Understood Betsy by Dorothy Canfield. Girl is raised by loving aunt who sees her as tragically breakable, then there’s a crisis and Elizabeth Anne age 9 is sent off to live with the Vermont branch of the family on their farm. Cousin Henry picks her up at the station and hands her the reins because he needs to add up some figures; she of course has never driven a wagon before. It goes on from there. It spoke to me as a child and still does. It’s a theme in children’s books – Heidi; The Secret Garden; etc. Send kids outside, let them run around, let them explore, don’t coddle them, don’t treat them as fragile butterflies, let them have adventures and learn to cope.
The trans Movement is literally ALL ABOUT being insanely fragile and putting the burden on everyone else and never ever ever learning to cope. It’s no wonder I find it so repellent.
Jeebus galloping christ on a stick. How does a person like this even navigate society.
The other day I was ambling down the street and a couple of barely functioning drug addicts stumbling down the street looked at me and started laughing. “Ha! Ha! Ha! YER BALD! HEY BALDY!” ExcuuUUUUUSE me, I identify as being a young Peter Frampton with flowing gold locks, how VERY DARE you mis-represent me. *SOB*. I was going to insult them, but I’m sure that they identify as upstanding citizens, so I took the high road.
My wife didn’t change her name when we got married. That’s not surprising, as we got married in Spain, and it’s not done there (though even if we had married in the US, I doubt she would’ve changed her name, and I certainly wouldn’t have asked her to). Despite that, we would get cards, mostly from my mother and my aunt, addressed to “Mr. and Mrs. What a Maroon”. So of course we threw fits, screamed at them, overturned tables….
Nah, just kidding. Mostly we just rolled our eyes. Old folks are like that, after all. One of my sisters was in the same boat–married twice, never changed her name. She probably said something to my mother about it, but never made a scene.
Perhaps I’m being insensitive, but it seems to me that names are far more about identity than pronouns, yet most people get misnamed at some point int heir lives yet still manage to cope.
…most people get misnamed at some point int heir lives yet still manage to cope.
Ah, but you’ve only ever met people who didn’t kill themselves because they were misnamed! /s
I recall reading about some ancient (Greek? Philosopher??) who came upon a statue of a god in a market square, erected and dedicated by a supplicant whose prayers to said deity for safe landfall during a stormy sea voyage were answered. The philosopher pointed out that no statues were ever made by all those who perished at sea, whose equally desperate prayers to the gods went unheard or unanswered.
So, James Garnett, you didn’t call a bear to eat them? It’s what you’re supposed to do; it’s in the Bible, after all.
My name is often gotten wrong, on mail, email, or phone. Sometimes it’s not even close. Usually I am named with a male name, and a woman on the phone the other day called me ‘sir’ through the whole phone call. I didn’t know I was supposed to create a scene and smash things! And my mother used to refer to us as Mr. and Mrs. (his name). My father, on the other hand, always wrote Mr. and Dr. (his name). Since I chose to change my last name, my father’s rendition was more than acceptable. He acknowledged that I was more than just a wife.
Young children will often become very upset if someone gets their name wrong. There are certainly reasons for this involving identity formation and rule-following during this stage of development. I have a friend who’s been substitute teaching for about 30 years who tells me that even nicknames are now sending them into a tizzy.
“I called him ‘Steve’ instead of ‘Steven’ because that’s a common way the name gets shortened, but if he wants ‘Steven’ that’s okay.” “But his name is Steven!” “Sure, but ‘Steve’ is one thing Stevens get called.” “BUT HIS NAME IS STEVEN!” Real panic. Minds blown.
Apparently this level of concern can last past first grade.
Despite that, we would get cards, mostly from my mother and my aunt, addressed to “Mr. and Mrs. What a Maroon”. So of course we threw fits, screamed at them, overturned tables….
The first time I was married, my Dad made the mistake of doing that and it made Ms. Ex furious. She “induced” me to write him a letter telling him to shape up and she added an unpleasant post-script about women not being property of their husbands. After my divorce he brought that up frequently.
I suspect that if she had been born later on she would be enby by now.
My wife didn’t change her name when we got married. That’s not surprising, as we got married in Spain, and it’s not done there (though even if we had married in the US, I doubt she would’ve changed her name, and I certainly wouldn’t have asked her to).
Very similar to my story. My wife didn’t change her name either, for three reasons: 1. Chilean women (like Spanish women) don’t change their names when they marry; 2. she had already published under her original name, and didn’t want her first publications to disappear from sight; 3. I didn’t (and don’t) regard her as my property, and adopting my name would have obscured that.
The former Director of our institute changed to her husband’s name for publication purposes, and if anyone wants to check out her early work they can only do so with difficulty. I had a student 40 years ago who had already changed her name twice before she started her Ph. D. When we wrote our first paper I told her to choose which name she wanted and to stick to it for the rest her career. As things turned out she didn’t stay in research and went into business, where she now makes more in a month than I ever did in a year.
At the place where I get my hair cut they know me as Monsieur Maria, because for years my wife went there before I did, and is known as Madame Maria.
@Athel, your wife has two last names already (even if she doesn’t use both outside Chile), and you are correct that in Chile women keep their names after marriage, though some may follow the somewhat antiquated tradition of appending their husband’s name(s) after theirs and “de,” as in [Wife’sname] Fulano Zutano de Cornish-Bowden (simplified to Fulano de Cornish).
Now the kids are a whole other story, as in Chile they would properly have her first last name and your first last name – in the order of your choice. That is, they could be Kid Fulano Cornish or Kid Cornish Fulano.
Once you establish the pattern, all future kids must follow the same pattern. Note that you cannot use the second last name – they can’t be Kid Zutano Bowden or any other concatenation, only first-first.
The reason for this is that, traditionally and still in most Spanish-speaking countries, the first last name is the father’s last name and the second last name is the mother’s last name. But in Chile they are so cool and modern that they don’t recognize mothers and fathers in the law, only “progenitors.” Hence the choice, which I’m sure in 99.9% of cases is father’s (father’s) name first and mother’s (father’s) name second (i.e. Cornish Fulano).
Of course, in Portuguese-speaking countries it’s the opposite: the mother’s (father’s) last name comes first, and the father’s (father’s) last name comes second. In either case, one (the father’s) is seen as the more important name, and the other as the extra name, so if a Hispanic person uses one name in England or America, it’s usually the first, and if a Brazilian uses one name, it is usually the second. Likewise for the reverse interpretation of foreigners with two names in Hispanic or Lusophone countries.
So if you fly from Argentina to Brazil, you may be sent off as “Mr. Bowden” and received as “Mr. Cornish.”
“I’m going to really unhappy and sad, what else can I do about it?”
Apparently she does seek other actions. She expects the boss to go along with her, for this other woman to be reprimanded or fired or perhaps arrested.
The hyperbole of how someone else using normal English is “just like” a close friend attempt to kill you in a sneaky and painful way; wow. There are so many bad things that could happen to someone that most people might consider at a level lower than murderous betrayal, but apparently misgendering via normal English is worse than all those things.
I’m guessing she has never had knife twisted into her back by a close friend. Or by anyone. Or anywhere on her body. Or stabbed at all.
Sackbut, Holmes, The “knife twisted into your back” line is Dr. Jebra’s–that’s a parody account.
The very sad young
womantheybie is, unfortunately, all too real. Though she doesn’t say those words, she certainly has got herself extremely upset over a wanton act of heartless misgendering. O the huthemity.“harrowing experience”
Part of becoming a mature adult is learning to respect differences, let small things go, and draw your happiness from an inner sense of your own self worth instead of the opinions of other people. “This is my IDENTITY” she says as if it’s a big deal. No, it’s not. This preoccupation with needing others to mirror back the Ideal You is a stage of early adolescence. The young woman sounds like a child. The transgender doctrine forces people who identify as transgender into a permanent state of immaturity.
Imagine the alternative scenario: trans people usually prefer to be referred to by certain pronouns, but if the sex-related ones are used instead — meh, that’s okay. “Whatever others are comfortable with” They recognize it doesn’t change who they are and so they strive to rise above caring what others say or think. This is the standard expectation they hold out for themselves, and may sometimes struggle to meet in order to be their best self.
Why couldn’t it be like this?That level of assurance and generosity shouldn’t be inconceivable. And yet it’s virtually unthinkable as practiced because their identities are notoriously fragile, easily bruised, and completely wrapped up in being acknowledged, validated, and seen as whatever gender they have thrown their personalities out for. The narrative is that it hurts to be misgendered. The more sensitive you are, the more genuine the trans identity — and the more it will hurt. It is known.
When we’re set off-kilter, we follow a script. She no doubt sincerely believes she’s not following a script because it doesn’t feel fake. Her pain and suffering over being misgendered is indeed genuine, but it’s not naturally derived from the situation. It’s coming from the script, and the role is that of a perpetual teenager.
Or, as the Buddhist teacher Shantideva put it:
Transgenderism is telling its adherents that it is right and proper that the world be covered in leather for their benefit. Anyone even mentioning sandals or any kind of footware is to be condemned as a transphobic bigot plotting trans genocide.
@YNNB:
“Prepare the child for the road — not the road for the child.”
In The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure Lukianoff and Haidt talk about a sea change in child rearing and education which threw out this idea of instilling resilience and toughness for a more sensitive, concerned, child-centered approach — and as a consequence kids and adolescents became anxious and depressed. The book came out in 2018 and doesn’t really mention transgender issues, but the fragility and sense of entitlement they describe possibly hits its apotheosis there.
Thanks, Sastra. Your comment @5 is so very good.
This is an excellent observation. Combine that with the “the more outrageous the claim I support, the greater the demonstrated strength of my belief/faith/devotion/worthiness/allyship,” strain in trans ideology, and you’ve explained a lot of the behaviour we see. Works for other religious beliefs too; switch out “misgendering” with “desacration” of holy books, relics, symbols, etc. and you’ve got plenty fuel for performative outrage, with the same urge to punish. The more extreme the reaction, the greater one’s faith.
Sastra – It’s a funny thing, but just yesterday I was nudged by something, probably something here, to re-read a favorite children’s classic which is about, precisely, the preferability of raising children to be resilient and capable rather than fragile and neurotic. It’s Understood Betsy by Dorothy Canfield. Girl is raised by loving aunt who sees her as tragically breakable, then there’s a crisis and Elizabeth Anne age 9 is sent off to live with the Vermont branch of the family on their farm. Cousin Henry picks her up at the station and hands her the reins because he needs to add up some figures; she of course has never driven a wagon before. It goes on from there. It spoke to me as a child and still does. It’s a theme in children’s books – Heidi; The Secret Garden; etc. Send kids outside, let them run around, let them explore, don’t coddle them, don’t treat them as fragile butterflies, let them have adventures and learn to cope.
The trans Movement is literally ALL ABOUT being insanely fragile and putting the burden on everyone else and never ever ever learning to cope. It’s no wonder I find it so repellent.
[…] a comment by Sastra on […]
Jeebus galloping christ on a stick. How does a person like this even navigate society.
The other day I was ambling down the street and a couple of barely functioning drug addicts stumbling down the street looked at me and started laughing. “Ha! Ha! Ha! YER BALD! HEY BALDY!” ExcuuUUUUUSE me, I identify as being a young Peter Frampton with flowing gold locks, how VERY DARE you mis-represent me. *SOB*. I was going to insult them, but I’m sure that they identify as upstanding citizens, so I took the high road.
I’m so enlightened and good.
How does this nitwit have a job at all? She seems utterly incapable. Time to send her off to the farm in Vermont.
“It’s my game and I make the rules!”
And no one told her no.
My wife didn’t change her name when we got married. That’s not surprising, as we got married in Spain, and it’s not done there (though even if we had married in the US, I doubt she would’ve changed her name, and I certainly wouldn’t have asked her to). Despite that, we would get cards, mostly from my mother and my aunt, addressed to “Mr. and Mrs. What a Maroon”. So of course we threw fits, screamed at them, overturned tables….
Nah, just kidding. Mostly we just rolled our eyes. Old folks are like that, after all. One of my sisters was in the same boat–married twice, never changed her name. She probably said something to my mother about it, but never made a scene.
Perhaps I’m being insensitive, but it seems to me that names are far more about identity than pronouns, yet most people get misnamed at some point int heir lives yet still manage to cope.
Ah, but you’ve only ever met people who didn’t kill themselves because they were misnamed! /s
I recall reading about some ancient (Greek? Philosopher??) who came upon a statue of a god in a market square, erected and dedicated by a supplicant whose prayers to said deity for safe landfall during a stormy sea voyage were answered. The philosopher pointed out that no statues were ever made by all those who perished at sea, whose equally desperate prayers to the gods went unheard or unanswered.
Heh, reminds me of all those memes about how “we didn’t wear helmets/seatbelts/etc. when we were growing up, and we survived!”
“We didn’t take antibiotics every time there was an outbreak of TB or diphtheria and we survived!”
So, James Garnett, you didn’t call a bear to eat them? It’s what you’re supposed to do; it’s in the Bible, after all.
My name is often gotten wrong, on mail, email, or phone. Sometimes it’s not even close. Usually I am named with a male name, and a woman on the phone the other day called me ‘sir’ through the whole phone call. I didn’t know I was supposed to create a scene and smash things! And my mother used to refer to us as Mr. and Mrs. (his name). My father, on the other hand, always wrote Mr. and Dr. (his name). Since I chose to change my last name, my father’s rendition was more than acceptable. He acknowledged that I was more than just a wife.
Young children will often become very upset if someone gets their name wrong. There are certainly reasons for this involving identity formation and rule-following during this stage of development. I have a friend who’s been substitute teaching for about 30 years who tells me that even nicknames are now sending them into a tizzy.
“I called him ‘Steve’ instead of ‘Steven’ because that’s a common way the name gets shortened, but if he wants ‘Steven’ that’s okay.” “But his name is Steven!” “Sure, but ‘Steve’ is one thing Stevens get called.” “BUT HIS NAME IS STEVEN!” Real panic. Minds blown.
Apparently this level of concern can last past first grade.
The first time I was married, my Dad made the mistake of doing that and it made Ms. Ex furious. She “induced” me to write him a letter telling him to shape up and she added an unpleasant post-script about women not being property of their husbands. After my divorce he brought that up frequently.
I suspect that if she had been born later on she would be enby by now.
Very similar to my story. My wife didn’t change her name either, for three reasons: 1. Chilean women (like Spanish women) don’t change their names when they marry; 2. she had already published under her original name, and didn’t want her first publications to disappear from sight; 3. I didn’t (and don’t) regard her as my property, and adopting my name would have obscured that.
The former Director of our institute changed to her husband’s name for publication purposes, and if anyone wants to check out her early work they can only do so with difficulty. I had a student 40 years ago who had already changed her name twice before she started her Ph. D. When we wrote our first paper I told her to choose which name she wanted and to stick to it for the rest her career. As things turned out she didn’t stay in research and went into business, where she now makes more in a month than I ever did in a year.
At the place where I get my hair cut they know me as Monsieur Maria, because for years my wife went there before I did, and is known as Madame Maria.
@Athel, your wife has two last names already (even if she doesn’t use both outside Chile), and you are correct that in Chile women keep their names after marriage, though some may follow the somewhat antiquated tradition of appending their husband’s name(s) after theirs and “de,” as in [Wife’sname] Fulano Zutano de Cornish-Bowden (simplified to Fulano de Cornish).
Now the kids are a whole other story, as in Chile they would properly have her first last name and your first last name – in the order of your choice. That is, they could be Kid Fulano Cornish or Kid Cornish Fulano.
https://www.bcn.cl/leychile/navegar?idNorma=1159523
Once you establish the pattern, all future kids must follow the same pattern. Note that you cannot use the second last name – they can’t be Kid Zutano Bowden or any other concatenation, only first-first.
The reason for this is that, traditionally and still in most Spanish-speaking countries, the first last name is the father’s last name and the second last name is the mother’s last name. But in Chile they are so cool and modern that they don’t recognize mothers and fathers in the law, only “progenitors.” Hence the choice, which I’m sure in 99.9% of cases is father’s (father’s) name first and mother’s (father’s) name second (i.e. Cornish Fulano).
Of course, in Portuguese-speaking countries it’s the opposite: the mother’s (father’s) last name comes first, and the father’s (father’s) last name comes second. In either case, one (the father’s) is seen as the more important name, and the other as the extra name, so if a Hispanic person uses one name in England or America, it’s usually the first, and if a Brazilian uses one name, it is usually the second. Likewise for the reverse interpretation of foreigners with two names in Hispanic or Lusophone countries.
So if you fly from Argentina to Brazil, you may be sent off as “Mr. Bowden” and received as “Mr. Cornish.”
iknklast, dang it!! What a missed opportunity! (I got a good chuckle out of that.)