Uh huh. The Mr. Potato Head Theory of Sex isn’t cutting edge.
The side that insists that we shouldn’t debate people’s existence can’t also be the side constantly trying to have a debate but the other side keeps running away.
It’s rumoured Abigail Thorn /PhilosophyTube was obsessed with Natalie Wynn / ContraPoints, and transitioned so that she could emulate the latter’s commercial success.
Also, why do all these British Transwomen have upper-middle class accents? Paris Lees aside, they all seem to be from very privileged backgrounds.
I’d like to advocate the use of the term “transmaiden” for Ash Sarker, Laurie Penny, Ellie Mae O’Hagan and other natal women who suck up to trans women like Thorn.
TiM: All the scientists and biologists say “it’s way more complicated than that.”
All right, then, what other sexes have “all the scientists and biologists” discovered? Name any third gametes that can be used for sexual reproduction. There aren’t any.
[“transphobia”] is a refusal to look at the facts of biology.
You’ve got to be kidding. YOU’RE the ones who refuse to acknowledge the objective facts of biology, in favor of completely subjective, internal feelings, which you may or may not actually have (I.e., you could be lying about your claims, and there is no way to test their veracity).
Sex is a cluster of properties. You can absolutely change them, or change a lot of them.
Oh yeah? Like what? Some cosmetic appearances, maybe. Other than that, no.
I myself have changed sex. Like, believe me, you can do it.
In what way? In what f*ing universe? No, you have NOT “changed sex.” That’s simply not something that can be done. No matter what the surgeons and pharma pushers tell you, an actual change of your biological sex is not on offer. That’s a big fat delusional lie.
There’s no evidence for this position [that self-ID is a threat to women] at all.
What are you smoking? There is tons of evidence that men in women’s shelters, women’s locker rooms, women’s bathrooms, women’s prisons, women’s sports, is hella detrimental to women. You’re the ones who are denying and refusing to look at the actual evidence. Women are shouted down, attacked, stalked, deplatformed, fired, etc., for daring to say what everyone knows: men are not women, women are not men, and women have the right to single sex spaces, services, and categories. Women have the right to advocate for women, as a class — a class that by definition does not include men.
You can’t really argue with people whose whole position is the denial of reality.
What a spectacular own goal. That’s what we have been up against for years! Your absolute denial of the reality of biological sex. I can’t even.
Transmaiden is a good one, Mostly Cloudy. So as not to be too sexist, there must also be transervants. Owen Jones and Justin Trudeau for example. Good at transplaining, those ones.
Some Transervants: Owen Jones, Billy Bragg, Colm O’Gorman, Richard Seymour, Aurelien Mondon, Drew Magary, David Klion, Neil Gaiman, Michael Cashman, David O’Doherty, David Paisley, Jack Turban,Charles Stross, Joylon Maugham, Frankie Boyle, and Aidan Comerford.
maddog1129 @ 9 – P Z Myers just had a post on that very question, to which he replied, “Your mom,” and then went on to write several paragraphs about how color falls on a spectrum…while never actually addressing, much less answering, the question. Of course there is great variation within each sex, but he continues to make vague assertions that sex in the species Homo sapiens is somehow more than female and male. Chromosomes don’t count, gametes don’t count, the present or former ability to be pregnant doesn’t count, but he never clarifies what actually *does* count.
One of Ollie Thorne’s videos was actually a big reason I went, “Nope,” to the whole thing. Dude said that it was transphobic to take a position of “to each their own; live and let live”.
It is not clear from the full page listing of each card, which in my browser at least doesn’t have a description for each card; is there a description on the reverse of the card, anyone know?
I think the reason “transmaiden” and “transervant” work as epithets is because they remind us of “handmaiden” and “handservant” (or perhaps “manservant”). There is no “handbutler.”
@19 I don’t think Nina’s finished all the descriptions for the cards, some are still blank. They’re regular playing cards, with the same pattern on the back for all of them. (She’s written that she’s had to leave so many people out she may do another set.)
So, it seems that the claim that us transphobes are conflating sex and gender is purposeful misdirection. Right? Because Ayo has “changed sex” by modifying a small cluster of properties (neglecting to swap his prostate for a skene’s gland, I presume) he now has acquired enough “Lady Hit Points” to tip him over to the fairer sex. Or gender, or, whatevershutuptransphobes.
People who were half asleep or throwing spitballs during the biology class unit on sexual reproduction, but keeping one ear open for what might be on the quiz that Friday probably are fooled to think “that sounds just sciency enough to be right.” Man, science has advanced since then!
Sex really never was as simple as we’d like. There is far more that goes into the reproductive systems than the main organs that produce and combine gametes, to nurturing zygotes, pharyngulas and fetuses through to birth, than was even realized. The controversy over the g-spot was not even settled until someone had the bright idea of actually studying the human female reproductive system in detail to discover that the clitoris was far larger than previously thought and is actually what was thought to be the elusive separate organ.
But in none of this new discovery is there a change in how biology sheds light on sex differentiation. People don’t take the time to learn that anisogamy means, what dimorphic means, and even what a bimodal distribution actually is. So when someone like this guy, with his lady smirk comes along and authoritatively says “transphobes reject reality,” who you gonna believe? Some middle aged transphobic woman who pickets against the poor children who must be protected? Or the expert whose been bullied for being different.
I just went through Nina Paley’s deck of cards. Brilliant. Note the Kellie-Jay Keen one, holding an umbrella under a stream of red paint while not shutting up.
clamboy @ 14; It’s almost always one of argumentum ad misericordiam, Sorites, persuasive definition, four terms, equivocation, or straight up ignoratio elenchi. The color spectrum thing is just a mindless Sorites, and seeing it actually elicits intense fremdschamen.
So far, I (a scientist) have seen no evidence to demonstrate that humans are not sexually dimorphic. I personally know no other scientists who disagree. (Technically, I have met and spoken with PZ but I doubt he remembers me, and I haven’t had ongoing conversations, so I don’t actually KNOW him).
Because our school decided Psych 101 needed to be in with the hard sciences so students who didn’t want to take science could have a “soft” course counted as a “hard” one, we were forced at a recent meeting to keep our mouths shut when the Psych teacher went on about gender. Why forced? Because a high level administrator was in the room, and they’ve already fired one instructor for calling a man a man.
Now that I’m retired, I can say what the hell I please. No man can become a woman; just because fish can do it doesn’t provide evidence. We are not fish. I can’t develop a swim bladder just because a fish has one, any more than I can fly because birds do.
“I think the reason “transmaiden” and “transervant” work as epithets is because they remind us of “handmaiden” and “handservant” (or perhaps “manservant”). There is no “handbutler.””
True. Plus “handservant” is an archaic term for “handmaiden”, so it makes the term “transervant” make a kind of sense:
People like this are why Trump will be elected in 2024. Given that “liberals” seem to have chosen this hill to die upon.
The DARVO in this one is strong.
“You can’t really argue with people whose whole position is the denial of reality.” — Well put, Oliver.
Let’s just assume ‘transphobia’ to prop up that strawman, shall we?
“philosopher” Pfft.
“Sex is a cluster of properties …”
Uh huh. The Mr. Potato Head Theory of Sex isn’t cutting edge.
The side that insists that we shouldn’t debate people’s existence can’t also be the side constantly trying to have a debate but the other side keeps running away.
In this case, every accusation is a confession.
Exactly. In psychology they call it ‘projection.’
It’s rumoured Abigail Thorn /PhilosophyTube was obsessed with Natalie Wynn / ContraPoints, and transitioned so that she could emulate the latter’s commercial success.
Also, why do all these British Transwomen have upper-middle class accents? Paris Lees aside, they all seem to be from very privileged backgrounds.
I’d like to advocate the use of the term “transmaiden” for Ash Sarker, Laurie Penny, Ellie Mae O’Hagan and other natal women who suck up to trans women like Thorn.
All right, then, what other sexes have “all the scientists and biologists” discovered? Name any third gametes that can be used for sexual reproduction. There aren’t any.
You’ve got to be kidding. YOU’RE the ones who refuse to acknowledge the objective facts of biology, in favor of completely subjective, internal feelings, which you may or may not actually have (I.e., you could be lying about your claims, and there is no way to test their veracity).
Oh yeah? Like what? Some cosmetic appearances, maybe. Other than that, no.
In what way? In what f*ing universe? No, you have NOT “changed sex.” That’s simply not something that can be done. No matter what the surgeons and pharma pushers tell you, an actual change of your biological sex is not on offer. That’s a big fat delusional lie.
What are you smoking? There is tons of evidence that men in women’s shelters, women’s locker rooms, women’s bathrooms, women’s prisons, women’s sports, is hella detrimental to women. You’re the ones who are denying and refusing to look at the actual evidence. Women are shouted down, attacked, stalked, deplatformed, fired, etc., for daring to say what everyone knows: men are not women, women are not men, and women have the right to single sex spaces, services, and categories. Women have the right to advocate for women, as a class — a class that by definition does not include men.
What a spectacular own goal. That’s what we have been up against for years! Your absolute denial of the reality of biological sex. I can’t even.
Transmaiden is a good one, Mostly Cloudy. So as not to be too sexist, there must also be transervants. Owen Jones and Justin Trudeau for example. Good at transplaining, those ones.
Ok twiliter.
Some Transervants: Owen Jones, Billy Bragg, Colm O’Gorman, Richard Seymour, Aurelien Mondon, Drew Magary, David Klion, Neil Gaiman, Michael Cashman, David O’Doherty, David Paisley, Jack Turban,Charles Stross, Joylon Maugham, Frankie Boyle, and Aidan Comerford.
Excellent! :)
Wait, servant isn’t the male version of maid: maids are servants. How about transbutlers?
maddog1129 @ 9 – P Z Myers just had a post on that very question, to which he replied, “Your mom,” and then went on to write several paragraphs about how color falls on a spectrum…while never actually addressing, much less answering, the question. Of course there is great variation within each sex, but he continues to make vague assertions that sex in the species Homo sapiens is somehow more than female and male. Chromosomes don’t count, gametes don’t count, the present or former ability to be pregnant doesn’t count, but he never clarifies what actually *does* count.
Transbutlers is a good one too, reminiscent of the Judith’s Butlers series by Exulansic.
@11 for those of you who haven’t seen it, Nina Paley has done a ‘gender wars’ deck of cards (not all our favourite people are included but many are):
https://www.heterodorx.com/gender-wars-cards/
One of these days he’s going to have to admit that it’s all about the soooooooul, and the religiots are going to have a field day.
One of Ollie Thorne’s videos was actually a big reason I went, “Nope,” to the whole thing. Dude said that it was transphobic to take a position of “to each their own; live and let live”.
It is not clear from the full page listing of each card, which in my browser at least doesn’t have a description for each card; is there a description on the reverse of the card, anyone know?
I think the reason “transmaiden” and “transervant” work as epithets is because they remind us of “handmaiden” and “handservant” (or perhaps “manservant”). There is no “handbutler.”
@19 I don’t think Nina’s finished all the descriptions for the cards, some are still blank. They’re regular playing cards, with the same pattern on the back for all of them. (She’s written that she’s had to leave so many people out she may do another set.)
So, it seems that the claim that us transphobes are conflating sex and gender is purposeful misdirection. Right? Because Ayo has “changed sex” by modifying a small cluster of properties (neglecting to swap his prostate for a skene’s gland, I presume) he now has acquired enough “Lady Hit Points” to tip him over to the fairer sex. Or gender, or, whatevershutuptransphobes.
People who were half asleep or throwing spitballs during the biology class unit on sexual reproduction, but keeping one ear open for what might be on the quiz that Friday probably are fooled to think “that sounds just sciency enough to be right.” Man, science has advanced since then!
Sex really never was as simple as we’d like. There is far more that goes into the reproductive systems than the main organs that produce and combine gametes, to nurturing zygotes, pharyngulas and fetuses through to birth, than was even realized. The controversy over the g-spot was not even settled until someone had the bright idea of actually studying the human female reproductive system in detail to discover that the clitoris was far larger than previously thought and is actually what was thought to be the elusive separate organ.
But in none of this new discovery is there a change in how biology sheds light on sex differentiation. People don’t take the time to learn that anisogamy means, what dimorphic means, and even what a bimodal distribution actually is. So when someone like this guy, with his lady smirk comes along and authoritatively says “transphobes reject reality,” who you gonna believe? Some middle aged transphobic woman who pickets against the poor children who must be protected? Or the expert whose been bullied for being different.
Be kind. That’s the motto.
I just went through Nina Paley’s deck of cards. Brilliant. Note the Kellie-Jay Keen one, holding an umbrella under a stream of red paint while not shutting up.
Lia Thomas also made me laugh. THOSE SHOULDERS.
clamboy @ 14; It’s almost always one of argumentum ad misericordiam, Sorites, persuasive definition, four terms, equivocation, or straight up ignoratio elenchi. The color spectrum thing is just a mindless Sorites, and seeing it actually elicits intense fremdschamen.
So far, I (a scientist) have seen no evidence to demonstrate that humans are not sexually dimorphic. I personally know no other scientists who disagree. (Technically, I have met and spoken with PZ but I doubt he remembers me, and I haven’t had ongoing conversations, so I don’t actually KNOW him).
Because our school decided Psych 101 needed to be in with the hard sciences so students who didn’t want to take science could have a “soft” course counted as a “hard” one, we were forced at a recent meeting to keep our mouths shut when the Psych teacher went on about gender. Why forced? Because a high level administrator was in the room, and they’ve already fired one instructor for calling a man a man.
Now that I’m retired, I can say what the hell I please. No man can become a woman; just because fish can do it doesn’t provide evidence. We are not fish. I can’t develop a swim bladder just because a fish has one, any more than I can fly because birds do.
“I think the reason “transmaiden” and “transervant” work as epithets is because they remind us of “handmaiden” and “handservant” (or perhaps “manservant”). There is no “handbutler.””
True. Plus “handservant” is an archaic term for “handmaiden”, so it makes the term “transervant” make a kind of sense:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/handservant
Some other Transmaidens: Jessica Valenti, Mara Wilson, Sally Hines, Roxane Gay, Grace Blakeley, Caitlin Moran, Louise O’Neill, Jennifer O’Connell, Samantha Bee, Amanda Marcotte, Michelle Goldberg, Jessa Crispin, Constance Grady, N.K. Jemisin and Angie Thomas.
A couple of American politician transmaidens: Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren. You can spot them by their pronouns.