Spa day with Wilz
Not that Willoughby has a stereotyped idea of what women are and do and like, no no no not at all, he understands women better than women do.
Spend some time with her doing the things girlz do teeheeheeheeheehee
Tip Jar
Not that Willoughby has a stereotyped idea of what women are and do and like, no no no not at all, he understands women better than women do.
Spend some time with her doing the things girlz do teeheeheeheeheehee
“…win her over…” — Is this how Jonathan describes his bullying now? Sure, let’s butter her up with some spa time and try to force an ideology on her. Good luck with that. The idea of it is an insult in itself.
With or without India, that sounds like a frightful day. Now, if he wanted to follow me around wetlands and prairies, and maybe learn a bit about plants and insects…of course, he’d have to take off his high heels for that. High heels and prairies – not compatible.
But isn’t that how many TIMs win women over? They’re friendly, they’re fun, they’re really trying to blend in, they’re like that stereotypical Gay Best Friend only instead of them reassuring you, it’s your turn to reassure them. Let’s just be girls together and get our nails done, shall we? That’s all it needs. They’re allies.
It struck me the other day that so many of their persuasive arguments aren’t about science or reason, but about their plight, their past, their desires, their requirements and troubles and inner feelings of frustration and humiliation and triumph. Think of it as self-confessions done to an empathetic friend. They don’t convince people of their claims. They win them over.
When homosexuality was considered degenerate and dangerous, the Coming Out campaigns showed the general public that no — gays & lesbians were no different than anyone else. They were already your friends, family, and neighbors. Getting to know them as people was an excellent way to dispel prejudice. They won people over because that was how it had to be done.
It’s tempting then for everyone, including the trans-identified themselves, to fall into the familiar pattern of thinking that what’s needed here is more of that personal touch and sure, you bet, some males are female. We had a spa day together. They’re just like any other woman.
Does he actually think that’s how women (want to) spend their days?
How is the regressive sexism not blindingly obvious to everyone?
@sastra
I honestly think that they believe that the problem most people have with transgender people is that they are gender non-conforming, and that’s why they say “just spend some time with one of us,” as if that would break down the barriers of enmity that exist. They don’t realize that the problem relates to their need for validation as a different sex, with all the golden key access to the other sex that goes along with it.
We, at least most of us, have seen the way that GNC kids were teased, bullied, beat up, rejected, and even kicked out of their homes. That’s a social problem that definitely needs fixing. Gender non-conformnig kids and adults need their rights protected. And that’s probably why most atheists and skeptics are so hardened towards gender criticals, and label us transphobes. Almost all skeptics, including myself, have difficulty applying dispassionate analysis to topics that we are emotionally attached to. And if most skeptics were the among the bullied in school, separating themselves from that emotional and empathetic response to defend and stand for GNC as trans, is wrenching. I’m not a psychologist, but this puzzling steadfastness on the part of the skeptics formerly known as a community, sure must have some cause.
It’s easier to laugh at a friend who tells you that they are convinced by Bigfoot sightings and UFO sightings than it is to laugh at a friend who tells you they had an awful childhood and were bullied because they are really girls inside.
Maybe I’m being too generous, but I’m searching for a reason behind it and mostly come up empty, This seems the most plausible, and I can reach back to my own experience with it.
For many of us the problem is that we have spent time with trans ID people, and once we spot the patterns associated with BPD, and specifically pathological narcissism, we can’t unsee them. And we see that they are “weaponizing their trauma.”
The sad thing is that GNC kids are grasping for explanations on why they don’t fit in, and get this false promise that they are “born in the wrong type of body” and that surgery and hormones can right them. When you’re desperate to fit in, you’ll reach for anything and detransitioners find out that it was all a ruse that, in some cases, robbed them of future happiness.
Two things the come to mind in regard to #5:
Much of the rhetoric of trans ideology conflates “gender non-conforming” and “trans”, talking about drag performers and crossdressers and trans people as if they are all the same thing.
There are numerous instances of gender non-conforming children being rejected by their families as potentially gay, but then accepted by their families as trans. Transactivists seem to ignore the distinctions here, talking about how the child went from rejected to accepted, rather than going from GNC gay to “trans”, “new gender conforming”.
It’s ironic then that atheists and skeptics would not recognize the desirability of the abolition of gender, rather than its reification. If there is no gender, then “gender non-conformity” is no longer a thing. The real problem is not that GNC kids are following the “wrong” standards of behaviour, the standards themselves are wrong to start with. To put it another way, it’s not that particular religious claims are wrong, it’s religion itself that is pernicious. It’s amazing that atheo-skeptics can’t see this, that they now are bowing down to and defending the poorly evidenced, improbable, and destructive religious belief of “gender identity,” complete with its own Gish Gallop of “intersex”, terminological sleight of hand, and clown fish.
Right, as well as ignoring the desire to seek the most parsimonous explanation for GNC:
1. Is it a disembodied Gender Identity?
2. Is gender a posionous function of a patriarchal society?
We, who preach so often the application of Occam’s razor, discard it when it comes to gender.
Sack @7 But being free from being rejected or discriminated against because of sexual orientation is the whole purpose behind the LGB movement. What’s disturbing is the idea that trans is somehow more acceptable than being gay. There are plenty of admittedly heterosexual trans people, which is why the T doesn’t fit with LGB. Both should be acceptable, to a point, but for different reasons. Being trans isn’t an unacceptable way to live in itself, until it infringes on women’s rights, or seeks to bestow special status, or peddles an ideology on children. Trans ideology contains some of the same things wrong that religion does in this way, demanding tolerance while compelling their own brand of intolerance.
What I find astounding are people who rail against gender stereotypes, yet use those very same stereotypes as evidence of trans-ness. Don’t they realize they are contradicting themselves?
twiliter @ 9
The point I was trying to make is that, by merging all these things together, the story becomes “LGBTQ youngster finds acceptance” instead of “gay youngster has to become trans to gain acceptance”. Imagine if the boy had declared he was straight instead of trans, and was accepted then. That wouldn’t be a success story.
I think it’s hard to ignore the contradictions without creating a blind spot that needs constant nurturing. Deny, obfuscate, ignore, drown it out, redirect, justify, rationalize, whatever it takes. Sounds exhausting to me.
Almost as exhausting as policing “inclusive” language and pronoun usage.
In my experience atheo-skeptics regularly emphasise a legitimate demographic: trans-identified people who buck the stereotypes associated with their target gender. The macho lesbian transwoman; the effeminate cross-dressing transman; the large majority of trans people who have the usual mix of masculine and feminine traits. This supposedly shows it just can’t be GNC jumping to the conclusion that they’re trans.
Add to that their working fact/assertion/guess/hypothesis that most trans people who do follow stereotypes only do so to be socially or medically accepted as True Transgender (or are victims of the messaging same as “other girls”) and they feel the accusation has been successfully debunked. No sexism here. Gender Identity, being free of coherent content, is also free of stereotypes. Being trans has nothing to do with not conforming to gender expectations. Say it three times.
Except when it does, like when it’s part of the diagnostic criteria. Except for the part where being thought of or treated like the WRONG SEX is the most painful thing in the world, because whether you’re a woman, man, both, or neither defines your fundamental existence. Except for when the trans people themselves embody the stereotypes, use stereotypes to explain how they knew they were trans — and then proceed to claim that they’re only rejected because they make a better woman than cis women do, or a more believable man than cis men can.
Any theory about what trans is and why it spread so fast is imo worthless if it can’t account for the butch transbian.
Another thing that I notice…and we all notice…is the bullying. It’s possible the TiMs were not the bullied in school, but were in fact the bullies. At the very least it appears most of the are full of feelings of entitlement, and if they were really women, they would understand that entitlement isn’t something most women feel…because we don’t have it. Because we are given messages that minimize us, diminish us, and make us the “other” sex, the one that isn’t adult or fully human.
I realize that bullied children can grow up to be bullies. I also know not all bullies are bullied. So perhaps they weren’t the poor little effeminate boy picked on by other boys, they were the bullying brute with AGP.