Male feminism classic

Ok I listened to Lavery on Woman’s Hour. I’m relieved: Emma Barnett didn’t let him get away with much. It starts at 17:25 in case you want to listen.

20:10 Lavery: “I think what we’re really talking about is do we think the category ‘woman’ designates a class of biological being, or do we think that it’s a political category whose meaning can change over time. I think reasonable people can take different perspectives on that question, but historically speaking the people who have taken the position that it is a biologically essential category have tended to be on the side of patriarchy, and those who have claimed that it is a political category that has been deployed to oppress a class of people have been feminists. In the UK at the moment those terms are contested, the terms of the contest are a little confusing.”

That’s just nonsense. It’s not the case that “historically” feminists thought “woman” was a political category as opposed to a biological one. Of course they didn’t, because there weren’t men like Lavery running around saying they get to be women too.

At 32:12 Emma asks “Do you not understand or perhaps sympathize as to why they think of that [the strength advantage and unfairness in sport] as proof that there is such a thing as the female body?”

Lavery: “Well again I’m not for a moment contesting that there is such a thing as a female body – you know, you’re asking me if I can sympathize with a position I’ve told you I don’t agree with, so I guess my answer is yes, I can understand why people would hold the view that there was a naturally occurring organic type, after all that is what patriarchy tells us every day, and it is a very difficult view to get your head out of.”

Emma: “Are you saying that every woman who believes that is effectively having their mind warped by patriarchy?”

Lavery: “Uh I wouldn’t use that phrase, I think that it is difficult to think one’s way out of structures that one is informed of frequently.”

He starts to waffle on but Emma interrupts him: “But the irony is obviously some of those people are very much feminists and have thought [of] nothing but about patriarchy and how to think their ways out of those structures and still come to the conclusion that the male body retains an advantage over the female body.”

Score!

At around 34:25 Lavery says it’s “a profound historical novelty” for feminists to think women are “a naturally occurring type” i.e. people with female bodies. “I do not think you could find a single feminist who would take that view prior to Caitlyn Jenner appearing on the front cover of Vanity Fair.”

Classic narcissistic man setting feminist women straight on what feminism is.

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