If you believe
Now there’s an easy challenge.
Yes, of course I believe that trans women are not really women, because that’s what “trans women” means. I’ve been coming out and saying it for years. This is not “like” lesbians and women of other marginalized groups, because those women are all women, but trans women are (by definition) men.
There’s no need to beg, no need to say please, I’m perfectly happy to say trans women are not really women. Just ask.
I was going to say that to Serano instead of here but he’s locked his account. I guess other women have been saying it to him.
“Not believing transwomen are really women” is pretty much the working definition of “transphobia.” It’s all it takes to be accused of having an irrational hatred and fear. Homophobes believe homosexuality is an abomination of nature, a perversion which should be shamed and shunned, a sin loved by the Devil, for it deserves Hell and damnation. But transphobes could be fine with people of either sex playing around with gender roles and stereotypes, living and loving however they want — and it’s still counted as a phobia.
I’ve heard two explanations from TRAs.
1.) The evidence for gender identity is so well established, the usefulness of “sex” so scientifically undermined, the positive case so beautifully arranged, that the only realistic reason for someone who considers the case only to reject it is a disgust towards the transgender, probably due to a desire to control others and mold them to be like themselves.
2.) Forget the arguments and evidence, just look at the result of a society which refuses to accept and promote the belief that transwomen are real women: pain, suffering, murder, and suicide. All the fine philosophical objections in the world should not outweigh a desire to protect the innocent from harm. If that’s not front and center in someone’s mental orientation, they’re callous, cruel, and indifferent to human suffering.
@Sastra:
The former friend who cancelled me seems to really believe #1.
There ought to be a middle ground. It ought to be possible to say, yes, in some respects trans women are (or can be) women, and should be accepted as such, but there are times when sex matters, and in those cases trans women don’t count as women. And it ought to be possible to say that trans women face unfair issues and roadblocks that are unique to them, but the same is true of (natal) women, and we ought to work toward creating a society that treats both groups fairly.
But when you try to express that message, you end up getting branded as a TERF and a transphobe, and you face the real threat of getting hounded out of your job or your blog spot.
I don’t really think I agree that it ought to be possible to say that in some respects trans women are women. I think what I think is that it ought to be enough to say that trans women are trans women, and that in some situations they can hang out on the women’s team. Partly that’s because of the give an inch and lose a mile problem, but it’s also because truth is truth.
How many of those roadblocks are the result of demands that they actually are women? I would say any such roadblocks are not unfair at all, as they are, in fact, men.
My thought is that letting TiMs use “woman” in any form in reference to themselves is part of that mile taken and lost. That mile is filled with barbed wire baseball bats and deplatforming and cancellation. For me, it’san inch too far.
Well, that’s because you’re a horrible person who is responsible for all the evil in the world, including the dead bunnies. Especially the dead bunnies.
But point taken; it’s kind of like Democrats trying to compromise with Republicans, when anything short of full capitulation is unacceptable.
I think we ought to throw the whole concept overboard and replace it with gender nonconforming. Wear what you like etc etc etc, but stop bullying women.
That’s in the abstract though. In the real world as it is now, I think even if the whole “movement” stopped on a dime and changed course, it would still take years for women to trust those gender nonconforming men again. The bullying that has already happened has bitten deep.
It wasn’t just women – I, and quite a few others with man sounding names gave him a schooling.
Excellent!
QFT.
Because honestly? THIS. A thousand times this.
It depends on what you mean by “gender nonconforming” though. I suspect what most people associate with the expression are “sissies” and “tomboys”, mostly gay, who have been very poorly served by the TRA movement in it’s present form. As I keep repeating, I think most of the toxicity of contemporary trans activism comes from the autogynephiles, most of whom are not really gender nonconforming in that sense at all. Indeed the main problem with these pervs is that they fit the most toxic stereotypes of masculinity too well. They’re like the guy shouting “Who the fuck are you looking at, asshole?!” to random strangers on the street just to give himself a pretext for beating the crap out of somebody.
It used to seem like a fair assumption that ‘trans women are trans women.’ And one could feel that self declaration had to be an adequate identifier. What else were you going to use?
But that’s a long way from demanding that self-declaration is infallible, and that there CANNOT exist a real body of crackpots and weirdos eager to ride the trans bandwagon into the rape crisis center or the girl’s bathroom. One Karen White or Jessica Yaniv is enough to demonstrate the issue. If TRAs were serious grownups, they would have to address the issue. Instead they wrap baseball bats in barbed wire and engage in ‘gamer-gate’ style harassment campaigns.