I’m undecided from that video whether he’s being too pushy or not. I could be persuaded either way. A couple of women I know have said they blocked him because he made them a bit uncomfortable.
So who knows? Being right about one thing is no guarantee about anything else… But his attack is no less shocking for any of that.
That video shows her engaging him with insults and foul gestures, I would surmise that she could have simply walked away without him causing her any trouble. Hell, the video doesn’t show what lead up to him asking her to explain her opinions, she may have instigated the whole thing, reacting to his billboard in the first place. The trouble with soundbites, lack of context. I side with Christoph on this one.
I err on the side of not pursuing for two reasons. One, there is the whiff of harassment when pursuing people for a conversation they don’t want. It may not be considered harassment in a legal sense, but I think it wise to keep a distance from that anyway.
Two, this is an attempt at public outreach, and public outreach has to include some thought regarding public image. If the public comes to the opinion that you’re a wanker, they won’t want to associate with you even if you are correct. It hands ammunition to the opposition, who can now say “see? This is what we are up against”. Repelling people from your side naturally makes them a tiny bit sympathetic to the other side. They may not even know what the other side is about, but people will think “at the very least, this team thinks that guy over there is a wanker, and I agree with them on that”.
I think Anthony Magnabosco” is a good example of how to engage with people non-confrontationally, even when they reject your position.
twiliter, if he had let her leave, any observer would see her as the belligerent one and him as the comparatively reasonable one. Public messaging requires tactical considerations like that.
Well yeah, he could have let it go too, but it looked like she wanted to engage, and he seemed to be asking questions only, of which her answers were “fuck you, asshole.” Some engagement styles are better than others.
She’s retreating, he’s pursuing. Yes, she’s tossing curses and obscene gestures, but that’s not a good look. I don’t care what your cause is, if your a man pursuing a woman like that, you’re doing it wrong.
Also, towards the end she tells him, “Wear a mask!” Which suggests that he’s not. Again, not a good look.
…One, there is the whiff of harassment when pursuing people for a conversation they don’t want. It may not be considered harassment in a legal sense, but I think it wise to keep a distance from that anyway….It hands ammunition to the opposition, who can now say “see? This is what we are up against”. Repelling people from your side naturally makes them a tiny bit sympathetic to the other side.
She’s retreating, he’s pursuing. Yes, she’s tossing curses and obscene gestures, but that’s not a good look. I don’t care what your cause is, if your a man pursuing a woman like that, you’re doing it wrong.
Also, towards the end she tells him, “Wear a mask!” Which suggests that he’s not. Again, not a good look.
Yes and yes. This is enough to prevent me from linking to his website or videos. (Also, I thought she was saying something about wearing on a mask. Wow. Really bad look for someone who’s claiming to have science on their side.)
It also reminded me a bit of Marjorie Taylor Greene’s pursuit of the high school shooting survivor/activist. Completely different scenario, but not a good comparison to be bringing to mind in your potential audience..
I’ve done a lot of public engagement on contentious matters (handing out How To Vote cards for The Greens at every election for 20 years, mostly in a right wing voting area), and pursuing is a very bad terrible no good idea for winning anyone over. It not only doesn’t work on those you’re pursuing, it makes you look bad to those who agree with you. Always your aim is to engage in a friendly fashion. Don’t escalate. If anyone escalates on you, break it off assertively but kindly. Look sensible and reasonable at all times. If you’re worked up, take a break.
I get his upset, but these tactics will damage his message if he’s not careful.
Repelling people from your side naturally makes them a tiny bit sympathetic to the other side. They may not even know what the other side is about, but people will think “at the very least, this team thinks that guy over there is a wanker, and I agree with them on that”.
Which eventually evolves into: “I don’t care who wins, or what else is included in the package, or who else gets hurt as a result, as long as these assholes loose!”
This guy might be problematic in his methods. Came across a link to this on La Scapigliata’s twitter feed:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Slatzism/status/1370761412008611847
Thread mentioned a discussion on Ovarit, which I found here:
https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/5781/what-on-earth-is-happening-with-chris-elston
He’s not wrong. His methods seem tame compared to the trans cult, who broke his fucking arm. wtf.
Bruce,
I’m undecided from that video whether he’s being too pushy or not. I could be persuaded either way. A couple of women I know have said they blocked him because he made them a bit uncomfortable.
So who knows? Being right about one thing is no guarantee about anything else… But his attack is no less shocking for any of that.
That video shows her engaging him with insults and foul gestures, I would surmise that she could have simply walked away without him causing her any trouble. Hell, the video doesn’t show what lead up to him asking her to explain her opinions, she may have instigated the whole thing, reacting to his billboard in the first place. The trouble with soundbites, lack of context. I side with Christoph on this one.
twiliter,
That’s why I figure I could be persuaded either way. There’s not enough context for me to judge it.
But the woman is obviously being more belligerent than he is, that leans me in his favor.
I err on the side of not pursuing for two reasons. One, there is the whiff of harassment when pursuing people for a conversation they don’t want. It may not be considered harassment in a legal sense, but I think it wise to keep a distance from that anyway.
Two, this is an attempt at public outreach, and public outreach has to include some thought regarding public image. If the public comes to the opinion that you’re a wanker, they won’t want to associate with you even if you are correct. It hands ammunition to the opposition, who can now say “see? This is what we are up against”. Repelling people from your side naturally makes them a tiny bit sympathetic to the other side. They may not even know what the other side is about, but people will think “at the very least, this team thinks that guy over there is a wanker, and I agree with them on that”.
I think Anthony Magnabosco” is a good example of how to engage with people non-confrontationally, even when they reject your position.
twiliter, if he had let her leave, any observer would see her as the belligerent one and him as the comparatively reasonable one. Public messaging requires tactical considerations like that.
Well yeah, he could have let it go too, but it looked like she wanted to engage, and he seemed to be asking questions only, of which her answers were “fuck you, asshole.” Some engagement styles are better than others.
She’s retreating, he’s pursuing. Yes, she’s tossing curses and obscene gestures, but that’s not a good look. I don’t care what your cause is, if your a man pursuing a woman like that, you’re doing it wrong.
Also, towards the end she tells him, “Wear a mask!” Which suggests that he’s not. Again, not a good look.
Yes and yes. This is enough to prevent me from linking to his website or videos. (Also, I thought she was saying something about wearing on a mask. Wow. Really bad look for someone who’s claiming to have science on their side.)
It also reminded me a bit of Marjorie Taylor Greene’s pursuit of the high school shooting survivor/activist. Completely different scenario, but not a good comparison to be bringing to mind in your potential audience..
I’ve done a lot of public engagement on contentious matters (handing out How To Vote cards for The Greens at every election for 20 years, mostly in a right wing voting area), and pursuing is a very bad terrible no good idea for winning anyone over. It not only doesn’t work on those you’re pursuing, it makes you look bad to those who agree with you. Always your aim is to engage in a friendly fashion. Don’t escalate. If anyone escalates on you, break it off assertively but kindly. Look sensible and reasonable at all times. If you’re worked up, take a break.
I get his upset, but these tactics will damage his message if he’s not careful.
Which eventually evolves into: “I don’t care who wins, or what else is included in the package, or who else gets hurt as a result, as long as these assholes loose!”