The vulnerable lose the right to name their oppressors
The Paedophile Information Exchange was affiliated to the National Council for Civil Liberties – now Liberty – in the late 1970s and early 1980s. But how did pro-paedophile campaigners operate so openly?
A gay rights conference backs a motion in favour of paedophilia. The story is written up by a national newspaper as “Child-lovers win fight for role in Gay Lib”.
It sounds like a nightmarish plotline from dystopian fiction. But this happened in the UK. The conference took place in Sheffield and the newspaper was the Guardian. The year was 1975.
Child rapists were trying to go mainstream.
The group behind the attempt – the Paedophile Information Exchange – is back in the news because of a series of stories run by the Daily Mail about Labour deputy leader Harriet Harman.
The Daily Mail has revisited the story of PIE to ask how much Harman and her husband the MP Jack Dromey knew about the group during their time working at the National Council for Civil Liberties, now Liberty, in the late 1970s. PIE was affiliated to the NCCL from the late 1970s to early 1980s.
I guess paedophiles were Identifying As liberators of children.
PIE was formed in 1974. It campaigned for “children’s sexuality”. It wanted the government to axe or lower the age of consent. It offered support to adults “in legal difficulties concerning sexual acts with consenting ‘under age’ partners”. The real aim was to normalise sex with children.
Journalist Christian Wolmar remembers their tactics. “They didn’t emphasise that this was 50-year-old men wanting to have sex with five-year-olds. They presented it as the sexual liberation of children, that children should have the right to sex,” he says.
I guessed correctly. “Won’t somebody please think of the sex-starved children?”
It’s an ideology that seems chilling now. But PIE managed to gain support from some professional bodies and progressive groups. It received invitations from student unions, won sympathetic media coverage and found academics willing to push its message.
It’s wrong to say that PIE was tolerated during the 1970s, says Times columnist Matthew Parris. “I remember a lot of indignation about it [PIE]. It was considered outrageous.”
I don’t think there was any equivalent in the US.
One of PIE’s key tactics was to try to conflate its cause with gay rights. On at least two occasions the Campaign for Homosexual Equality conference passed motions in PIE’s favour.
Lemme just repeat that.
One of PIE’s key tactics was to try to conflate its cause with gay rights. On at least two occasions the Campaign for Homosexual Equality conference passed motions in PIE’s favour.
Sound familiar at all?
Most gay people were horrified by any conflation of homosexuality and a sexual interest in children, says Parris. But PIE used the idea of sexual liberation to win over more radical elements. “If there was anything with the word ‘liberation’ in the name you were automatically in favour of it if you were young and cool in the 1970s. It seemed like PIE had slipped through the net.”
That sounds so quaint, doesn’t it? Now the magic word is “identity” – so much more sensible and reality-based than “liberation.”
When Polly Toynbee interviewed O’Carroll and Hose in the Guardian in September 1977 she heard men incredulous at the lack of support from the press. They seemed genuinely aggrieved at what they called a “Fleet Street conspiracy”. One of them told her: “We would expect the Guardian, a decent liberal newspaper to support us.”
Again, so very familiar. All right-thinking people agree with us, and dissenters are terfs prudes.
There were divisions within progressive circles. In 1977 the Campaign for Homosexual Equality passed by a large majority a resolution condemning “the harassment of the Paedophile Information Exchange by the press”.
…
A Guardian article in 1977 noted with dismay how the group was growing. By its second birthday in October 1976, it had 200 members. There was a London group, a Middlesex group being planned, and with regional branches to follow. The article speaks of PIE’s hopes to widen the membership to include women and heterosexual men.
Toynbee talked of her “disgust, aversion and anger” at the group but added that she had “a sinking feeling that in another five years or so, their aims would eventually be incorporated into the general liberal credo, and we would all find them acceptable”.
Familiar at all? Yeah?
I found the BBC article via a thread of Debbie Hayton’s.
Jimmy Savile then did exactly as he pleased in plain sight. People knew what he was up to, as @VictoriaPeckham explained in today's Times.https://t.co/9YhQd9CnAy
— Dr Debbie Hayton (@DebbieHayton) June 15, 2019
We have a serious problem.
As the naive, the ignorant and the enthusiastic dismantle safeguards and protections, the vulnerable lose their right to even name their oppressors.
It's neoliberal and harmful, as Prof @selina_todd explained.https://t.co/f0pNsDXtOo
— Dr Debbie Hayton (@DebbieHayton) June 15, 2019
We have NAMBLA: the North American Man-Boy Love Association. I remember when I was in my late teens in the ’90s, getting into Toronto’s gay village scene, there was some degree of sympathy for NAMBLA in the gay press and among the radical lefty queer-theory types I met. One of my best friends voiced support for NAMBLA because they idolized the poet Allen Ginsburg, who was a member.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association
*smites brow* Oh yes.
My sarcasm detector must be offline today.
No, it’s NOT an ideology that seems chilling now, unfortunately. It’s back, and *quickly*. Within living fucking memory.
What in hell is going on?
Artymorty – sarcasm? I just meant I’d forgotten about NAMBLA and how dumb of me.
Oops! I thought you meant you were being playful when you said you hadn’t heard of them. (They were discussed a lot in the gay scene in the past. Oh man, I felt like people would not shut up about NAMBLA for a time!)
I had heard of them, just forgot. Mind like a sieve.
Yeah, well, I think we’d all like to forget about NAMBLA…
But since we haven’t, I think it’s interesting that the NAMBLA situation ticks some of the same boxes. The International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA) was a big umbrella group that had almost every major gay rights group as a member. ILGA became affiliated with the UN in 1993, and then people noticed that frickin’ NAMBLA was one of their members. To ILGA’s discredit, it took quite a bit of pressure for them to kick NAMBLA out. The incident gave the “gays are coming for our kids” yokels a lot of ammunition.
This post is up on WordPress right now. I’m told the author was a member of PIE.
https://tomocarroll.wordpress.com/2019/05/08/desmond-is-truly-amazing-and-hot/
I have seen some books by “skeptics” that have questioned the wisdom of the age of consent. They have claimed (without any real evidence that I can see) that studies have shown that being sexually molested as a child doesn’t leave scars on children unless we make a big deal out of it and act as though it is something bad. They also seem to think that it is puritanical and religious prudery to think that adults having sex with children is wrong headed.
Adults are always, by definition, in a power position over children. They are bigger and they have lots more knowledge at their disposal to coerce children. And children often want to please the adults that surround them. For some of us, it was obvious that it was safer that way.
I am angry. And getting angrier all the time.
Iknklast, I’ve read articles that made similar points and have seen the backlash.
Honestly, it’s almost as if we want to approach it as two different realities.
To the victims, we want to say this is bad, but this isn’t your fault, and you can move past this, and it doesn’t have to dominate or ruin the rest of your life.
To the perpetrators, we want to say you very well may have ruined this person’s life, and you will pay accordingly.
And maybe that’s the answer — perpetrators get punished as if they’ve caused the worst possible outcome while we work to create the best possible outcome for their victims.
As for abolishing the age of consent, that is ludicrous. The potential harm far outweighs any benefit. Most areas have put in exceptions for those very close in age (so an 18 year old messing around with 17 year old isn’t treated the same as a 40 year old messing around with a 17year oId), thus fixing the one problem that had come up. Otherwise, there’s no reason to change these laws to help out pedophiles.
And the bit that everyone (else) seems to wilfully bury is that it was the Lesbians who were at the forefront of booting the pedoscum out of the “Gay Rights” movements generally.
They said “No! Absolutely not! Pedoscum do not belong here!” and they got exactly the same shit that they’re getting now for trying to protect children.
There’s a surprisingly large minority of dudes that will simply accept the “rights” of their bros to be into whatever – even if it’s harmful to someone not-them, because Bro-Code. Boners are apparently really important, see?
And when Lesbians/Bi-women/Dykes generally stand up for children and try to protect them? They get attacked and smeared and harassed and denegrated… Some were physically beaten up, harrassed out of jobs, and so on. All because they dared to stand up for the rights of children NOT to be raped and tortured.
All this hate is because women are saying NO! Dudes cannot stand that. Dosn’t matter what we’re saying no about, just that Doodz don’t wanna hear it.
And of course there was MRA icon Warren Farrell claiming that the problem with parent-child (mostly father-daughter) incest was caused by the taboo, not the act itself:
http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2012/11/21/what-mens-rights-guru-warren-farrell-actually-said-about-the-allegedly-positive-aspects-of-incest-note-its-even-more-repugnant-than-that-sounds/
So much goes back to Freud. Constructing an absurd theory of child sexuality; decades before the existence of hormones was discovered. And then endlessly rationalizing bogus adult projections (like the horrible quote Lady M found) onto kids who really aren’t having those feelings from inside themselves.
Skeletor, that is not what the articles I was referring to was saying. They were saying that we shouldn’t have laws against adults having sex with kids because it wasn’t any damage to kids unless we said it was, and that it was a normal, natural thing that should be allowed so the kids could grow up with a healthy sexuality. They were not saying at all that we should punish perpetrators for ruining the kids life, but that we should let the perpetrators go because they weren’t doing anything wrong or bad in any way, but were simply acting in a way that befits human sexuality.
As a victim of childhood sexual abuse, I get outraged whenever I read this.