Guest post: It’s not always easy for them
Originally a comment by guest on America’s exceptionally low social mobility.
One of the most striking differences I noticed when I moved from the US to the UK was how many people I met in professional/work circles who had literally ‘worked their way up’–the country/sector director of the large company I worked for in my first job here had started as an apprentice in the ’70s. I don’t think I ever knew anyone in the US who’d done this (I thought I had, but when I mentioned this years ago a catty friend revealed the advantages this person, whose persona was that of someone from an underprivileged background who’d ‘made good’, had actually started with).
I’ve met dozens of people here (almost all women–but that might just be because I spend more time talking with women) in my generation and younger who were the first in their families to get university degrees and professional jobs. It’s not always easy for them–I was actually talking with one the other night, a woman from a ‘deprived’ background who has a PhD from Oxford, who (like plenty of others) pointed out that while it’s certainly a positive thing for Oxbridge to work to get ‘diverse’ students into their programs they’re not so good at acknowledging and making explicit the tacit assumptions and behaviour norms that can make the experience a minefield for an outsider, which can lead to retention problems, and potentially psychological/emotional damage.
On kind of a tangent, I’m realising that my father was actually the first in his family to get a degree and professional job (my mother finished high school, and was a SAHM)–I’ve thought before (and perhaps have even commented to this effect on this blog) that while it meant that although he earned enough to provide us with a ‘nice’ house in the suburbs and plenty of money, and we never went without, physically, my parents had no idea how to support their children into professional careers themselves, or that they even should or had to, and may not have been able to do anything about it (re informal networking, positioning, etc) even if they had.
guest, I do think you underestimate the people working their way up here in the US. It is difficult – extremely difficult – but it is possible. Yes, I did have advantages over blacks in my social class, but I wasn’t competing against the black community, I was competing against the white male community. There are few advantages. My main advantages were a literate family and a drive to succeed. Still, I am at a much lower level than someone with my credentials, my drive, and my ability would be had I started with anything resembling an advantage. If I had had the opportunity to learn social skills…if I had had the opportunity (and encouragement) to take classes that would have taken me somewhere…if I had the money to attend something other than a tiny regional college with no research programs…if…if…if…and I really do get angry when people insist that a person who achieves anything “has an advantage”. Yes, being literate helped. Living in a rich town helped (but that also hurt, because being poor in a rich town means most students won’t make it because the shit they take is so shitty they drop out).
You give us one example of someone you think has worked up, but a “catty” friend (your word, not mine) revealed the advantages. Yeah, so? A sample size of one does not cut it. There are actually a lot of examples, including such notables as Ray Kroc and Sam Walton. And yes, they had the advantage of being a white male, but once you get down into the working classes, that advantage applies only against other working class individuals of different color or gender. It does not give them an advantage over the wealthy, powerful men they had to pass to get there. (And I realize we often overplay the working class status of our tycoons, but still…it is possible, it does happen, and advantage is a relative thing).
I was going to write a reply to what you wrote, but I think I’m just confused by what you’re saying, so I won’t–but I’ll share this:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/07/the-class-pay-gap-why-it-pays-to-be-privileged
All I am saying, guest, is that people do actually move up in the US. It isn’t easy, it isn’t often, but it happens.
Oh, OK–I didn’t say people didn’t, I just said I hadn’t met any.