As you are
A little McKinnon for refreshment after all that Trump on crack.
You: “I like dick”
Girl with dick says ‘Hey, wanna date?’
“Oh…no…I only like dick on guys”Guy responds to date ad: ‘Sup girl’ …guy has a vagina
“Oh, sorry, I only like guys with dicks”Both cases trans people are left in the cold. ‘Genital preferences’ are transphobic.
But not wanting to have sex with X isn’t phobia of X. We’re not obliged to want to have sex with anyone and everyone, with no preferences of any kind. McKinnon’s assertion makes nonsense of both heterosexual and homosexual – it asserts that we all have to be omnisexual. But we don’t have to. We don’t have to stop having preferences, and we don’t have to have sex with “Rachel” McKinnon. “Rachel” may be left out in the cold but that doesn’t translate to we are all obliged to have sex with him if he asks.
I don’t think there’s a principled distinction between:
1. “I like dick, not vaginas,” and
2. “I like ‘real’ vaginas, not trans women’s vaginas”If you think (1) is okay but (2) isn’t, I don’t think you can draw a principled reason, it’ll have to be ad hoc.
But 2. contains a lie. Trans women don’t have vaginas. They have inverted penises. Fun fact: an inverted penis is not like a vagina. This apparently comes as a nasty surprise to many people, but it’s true. Trans women don’t have vaginas, and what they do have doesn’t function like a vagina, so there are plenty of reasons to prefer a vagina to an inverted penis if vaginas are your sexual preference.
Y’all, I think many of you have let the transphobes condition trans women to vehemently reject this for fear of looking ‘rapey’ (which is NOT what the cotton ceiling is about).
You have a right to be loved and appreciated as you are, and people who don’t are transphobic.
No. You don’t. Nobody does. I daresay that formula sounds right and “inclusive” if you don’t think about it at all, but it’s complete nonsense. We don’t have a “right” to be loved. (Children have a right to parental love, or a damn good simulacrum of it, I think, but that’s a special case because the parents make those children, so they owe them.) If we did, what would follow from that? How would we police it? How would we monitor it?
We don’t have a right to be loved at all, and we doubly don’t have a right to be loved as we are. What if we’re smelly and bad-tempered and selfish? No. Love isn’t a right or a duty (except for parents), it has to have reasons. Different people have different reasons, so different kinds of people can find love, but that’s not because anyone has a right to it “as they are.”
I’m not sure I think McKinnon is a very good philosopher.
A Philosophical Treatise upon Why Every Woman Who Won’t Have Sex With Me is a Terrible Person.
But seriously, any man who figures that cutting his dick off is a good way to get more women to sleep with him isn’t too good at reasoning.
It is on a level with incel reasoning that assumes any woman who won’t have sex with them is…whichever reason/epithet is the going fad of the day.
I see the similarities between incels and TIMs as well. How long until they team up? I expect incel is really one of the oppressed gender identities, so long as they hate the right people.
Commenter: “What would be your suggestion if your date has genitals you don’t like to interact with? If I don’t want to have sex with certain genitals while having sex is important to me, how would this be solved?”
McKinnon: “Open up your world and see if you like it. Do you never try new things?”
Hey, all you lesbians! How do you know for sure?
Or maybe it’s more like “Sucks to be you. Do it anyway!”
Why is “I like male-gender-identifying people regardless of their genitals” ok, but “I like male-genital-having people regardless of their gender-identity” not? Why is one kind of exclusion ok but the other isn’t? Why is it ok for a transwoman to be exclusively “lesbian” on gender-identity terms, but it’s not ok for a biological woman to be exclusively lesbian on biological terms?
How does anyone on earth buy this garbage? Cult cult cult.
It’s because biological reality is of a lower order than the sublime truth of gender identity.
Because…women are scum. Cis-women, of course. Trans-women are wonderful, never violent, and always oppressed.
Woman hating. It’s ubiquitous.
You’d think a group of people obsessed with the importance of gender-identity would see the irony in the fact that the majority of their activist leaders purport to openly exclude people from their dating pool based on nothing but their gender-identity. A trans “lesbian” would supposedly reject a beautiful woman from his dating pool if she announced that her pronouns were “he/him” — because otherwise he wouldn’t be a lesbian now, would he — and this form of gender-identity exclusion is perfectly normal and ok for them.
This honestly makes absolutely no fucking sense to me.
Me: Look at this photograph.
Friend: Wow! That woman is beautiful!
Me: She identifies as a horse. You’re now into bestiality, you pervert.
Ben, stop oppressing the Pre-Clop community.
“You have a right to be loved and appreciated as you are, and people who don’t are transphobic.”
Do the people who are affronted that other people don’t fancy them ask themselves if they have an attractive personality? That their general nastiness and arrogance might turn their objects of desire off?
I blame that awful meme “If you don’t love me at my worst you don’t deserve me at my best.” Hell, you saw me torturing the cat – why does that put you off me when I’m offering you a glass of wine and a foot massage? It’s an abuser’s charter if ever there was one.
We all would like to be loved unconditionally, but as OB says, you get that from your parents, if at all. Other love has to be earned, or at least, not squandered.
This:
and this:
are going to run into each other once you make that first point contingent on a trans person having had the “bottom surgery.” You like dicks? This trans man ( née female) HAS a dick! But THIS trans man still has his vagina — so it’s okay to reject HIM! He’s not a real trans man.
McKinnon’s argument is making a distinction between trans people. O, McKinnon — can you make a PRINCIPLED distinction? If not, better say you’re sorry.
Yeah, this “fuck you, just lie back and think of England” shit is totally not in conflict with feminism. How could anyone possibly have thought otherwise?
9 and 10 made me laugh raucously. Thank you both.
Papito @ 6 –
Exactly. It’s Platonism. Ptui.
It’s not even Platonism — it’s culty sexual coercion masquerading as a kind of Platonism. It’s one-way Platonism: it’s fanatical narcissistic male cult leaders telling their young female followers, the rules are different for you than they are for me, and therefore I’m entitled to sex with you. You are not allowed to perceive my biological sex because I’m special, but I am allowed to perceive yours because you are beneath me and must obey. Like every other cult. There’s no difference.
(okay, maybe that came off a little harsh. But really, the parallels with cults are uncanny, jaw-dropping and eye-opening.)
If transwomen are women, full stop, and if these nouvelle-lesbians are looking for other women to hook up with, why don’t they just hook up with other transwomen? Surely that would solve everybody’s problem, or am I missing something? The solution is so glaringly obvious that I wonder if these more… vocal examplars don’t even want a solution, they want to be the problem!
“Beneath me” literally as well as figuratively…aka lie back and think of England, as Screechy said.
I don’t know why such special authentic individuality has to involve anyone else at all. Be whoever you want, however you want. Be Stunning and Brave. You “know” it in your core being. If that’s reality, why isn’t reality enough? Why does anyone else have to participate? Be YOURself, and leave other people alone.
Well, you’d think, but it turns out it’s all about bullying other people.
Trivializing actual transphobia by leveraging the concept to get laid. Is that called “advocacy”?
Even though he claims to haveone, McKinnon knows, in his heart of hearts, that there’s no such thing as a “lady dick.” A solution that does not let him be choosy himself is no solution at all. Lo and behold, he has a genital preference. That’s why he’s a “lesbian.” Therefore, he himself is transphobic. I think that’s a bit more straightforward , philosophically speaking, than whatever he’s trying to say.
Does McKinnon think he is the first man who ever tried to make a “philosophical” argument as to why women should want to sex him up and then claim that women who won’t sex him up are bad? Not only do men like him make a very poor mimicry of real women, they also make very poor copies of tactics other men have tried before.
Gotta admit it, Rachel McKinnon is a real dick.
They can beat this drum from now until eternity, but there’s never going to be more than a tiny market for people with genitals that don’t match their apparent gender.
I also instantly thought ‘incel logic’ when I read McKinnon’s quotes above. But given that incels are primarily a group of entitled, sexually-frustrated men, is it really all that surprising that McKinnon would mirror their reasoning?
It’s a pretty widespread idea, really – more than just official incels. It’s that whole men are always trying to get into women’s pants and women are always fighting them off routine, that’s the core of so many movies and pop songs. Men are supposed to chase and grope women, and women are supposed to say no. Virgin/whore dichotomy. McKinnon is just doing a very arcane version of Rock Hudson v Doris Day.
But baby, It’s cold outside.
I’m still struggling with the terminology. McKinnon is a woman. But he presumably doesn’t want to have sex with adult male persons. Does that make him a homophobe or a heterophobe?
Setting aside the usual issues with trans theory… why would a ‘guy’ with a vagina respond to a date ad stating “I like dick”??
And as you say, not wanting to have sex with X is not bigotry against X; and if it was, the only way to be non-bigoted in this respect is to want to fuck everyone. Do I get to have a preference for people roughly my age, or is that ageism against the elderly and very young? And so on through the various criteria upon which attractiveness might depend.
But also notice who is being left out of that silly example. The presumed heterosexual woman says “I like dick” and then rejects trans women, which we are told is bigoted. But she is also rejecting women, actual women. Hm, no mention of there being anything wrong with that. I guess women are allowed to be excluded…?
#9 Ben, #10 Papito
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtH7l-dhHZQ
Yes, for one thing they would no longer be ‘the special one’ in such a relationship.
Oh, I love the “I am a wolf” guy.