Lies 1-3
Greg Sargent at the Washington Post takes an in-depth look at Trump’s persistent lying. He cites the tweets in which Trump says he never mocked the reporter he did mock.
Here Trump is telling two lies about a third lie. A quick review: Trump’s mockery of a disabled reporter came after he claimed “thousands and thousands” of Muslims living in America celebrated 9/11. Kovaleski had written an article just after 9/11 that claimed law enforcement “detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks.” Under fire for his falsehood about celebratory Muslims, Trump cited that article to push back, even though an “alleged” “number” is hardly proof of “thousands.” In response to that, the reporter put out a statement saying he did not witness Trump’s version of events. But Trump cited that statement as proof that the reporter had dishonestly backtracked on a story that backed Trump’s position (a lie Trump repeated in Monday’s tweets). That’s how Trump’s mockery of the reporter arose: He waved his arms and mock-quoted the reporter saying “I don’t know what I said!” (See Glenn Kessler’s extensive anatomy of the full story.)
A “number of people”≠“thousands and thousands” of people. Not at all. A “number of people”≠a crowd or a mob or a mass of people. That’s not the right phrase to use when you mean to indicate a large though indeterminate number. It’s much closer to “several” then it is to “thousands and thousands.”
To recap: Lie No. 1 is that thousands of U.S.-based Muslims celebrated 9/11. Lie No. 2 is that the disabled reporter’s original story backed Trump and that the reporter backtracked on it. Lie No. 3 is that Trump didn’t mock that disabled reporter (in fact, he flapped his hands around frantically after saying, “you gotta see this guy!”).
The claim about celebrating Muslims was one of Trump’s biggest lies — one that was central to his key campaign narrative about the Muslim Enemy Within. And so, Streep wasn’t merely calling out Trump’s bullying and abusiveness. She was also calling out his uniquely uncontrollable lying, and the extent to which Trump will go to attack reporters in service of it.
That should be the lengths to which Trump will go. You can’t go to an extent the way you can go to lengths. It should be “the extent to which Trump will lie” or “the lengths to which Trump will go.” But the point is clear enough: Trump lies constantly and shamelessly, and he does it to damage and harm people he dislikes. He’s a very bad man.
It’s often argued that we should perhaps give less attention to Trump’s tweets. But Monday’s barrage gets at something important. Yes, all politicians lie. But with only days to go until Trump assumes vast power, Monday’s tweetstorm is a reminder that we may be witnessing something new and different in the nature and degree of the dishonesty at issue. Here again we’re seeing Trump’s willingness to keep piling the lies on top of one another long after the original foundational lies have been widely debunked, and to keep on attacking the press for not playing along with his version of reality, as if the very possibility of shared reality can be stamped out by Trumpian edict, or Trumpian Tweedict.
Seriously. As is no doubt obvious, I don’t at all buy the claim that we should pay less attention to Trump’s tweets; I think they’re a direct line to what a poisonous shit he is. Sure they could function as distractions but we can avoid that by avoiding it, and they are important in themselves. It’s important to know what malevolent, childish, ignorant, stupid thoughts he’s willing to put out there for all of us to see.
Some journalists are arguing that we need to take care in labeling Trump’s falsehoods as “lies,” because that imputes motive and intent. If some feel more comfortable labeling them “false,” that will probably suffice most of the time, with the crucial caveat that it must be done squarely and prominently. But the broader point here is that, in the debate over how to handle Trump’s profound and unprecedented dishonesty, let’s not underplay the possibility that the usual conventions of political journalism may prove woefully insufficient to conveying to readers and viewers what Trump is really up to here.
Yep.
Yes, it is something “new and different.” It’s having the most extreme case of malignant Narcissistic Personality Disorder—and very likely sociopathy—taking charge of the country. He’s made out of lies. That’s all there is to him. Lies and willingness to lie so extremely that other people are killed, stocks take a nose-dive, and actual war may be provoked.
The media has GOT to address this by name. Cluster B personality disorders. Extreme malignant narcissism. This is an opportunity to wake the public the fuck up to what we’re really dealing with.
i just wish the press would stop being so mealy-mouthed about him and stop talking to his “surrogates”. If he wants to tweet his comments, then they should be taken as sent with no added tenderizing by his flunkies.
And I wish people – not just the press – would quit with the constant “We all want what’s best for the country, we just disagree on what it is”. There are some Republicans who want what’s best for the country, and disagree with me on what that is. I accept that. But not this lot. Trump wants what’s best for Trump; Paul Ryan wants what’s best for Paul Ryan and his friends; Scott Walker want’s what’s best for Scott Walker; Mike Pence wants what’s best for Jesus…and so on, and so on, and so on. The country doesn’t figure into it, except as a veneer they paint over their disgusting fantasies to pretend something they don’t stand for, which is the good of the country – and the world, which should be part of that, especially in this global society.
“It’s the world gone crazy Cotillion”
Prescient, if on the wrong (sound) track.
It’s on Spotify, for all’y’all’s benefit.
Yeah, but the slogan was “Make America Great Again.” Where does the world enter into that? If America is Number 1, that means the rest of us are no better than second place (class). Remember, global warming is a Chinese hoax designed to cripple American competitiveness (never mind outsourcing jobs to the lowest bidder/lowest labour/health and environmental standards).
This was snark.
iknklast @3
I agree with your comments about some conservatives and their lying ‘what’s best for the country’ slogan. People on the Left are often deceived into believing that the dispute is about the methods of optimising health services or welfare, for example. In reality most plutocrats couldn’t give a rat’s about public policy, apart from avoiding paying their fair share of taxes. The accumulation of capital is all that matters.
One likely result of the Trump presidency is that citizens of the USA will learn the hard way the extent of America’s relative decline. If ‘making America great again’ means restoring the US to its previous hegemony, Trump is completely deluded.
labeling Trump’s falsehoods as “lies,” because that imputes motive and intent.
That’s a distinction without a difference (unless you want to opt for “bullshit” in the Frankfurtian sense, but dignified journals probably don’t). Adults in positions of responsibility have a duty to at least try to get their pronouncements somewhere in the vicinity of the truth. At some point, reckless disregard for truth becomes the moral equivalent of outright lying, and Trump is well past that point.
Quite! A compulsory liar will, at some non-remote point, lose the privilege of benefit of doubt. The burden then becomes his to prove his non-mendacity in each instance.
Not a good flip-flop. Best avoided. Too late here. Sorry, peotus. TILT!!
Play again? y/NO
Steve @ 7 – That’s an excellent point. I was trying to think of it myself but didn’t manage it – just flailed around with “but he ought to know it’s a lie…”
@7 and @9
Me too. I suspect that Trump constantly lies to achieve (very) short-term goals, possibly unaware of the consequences. But then he either reliably doubles-down on those lies or tells other – brand new – lies, presumably in an attempt to dig up. At which order of lie – 2nd, 3rd, 4th…. do we conclude that a person actually has some responsibility for the things they say? Doesn’t a 2nd order lie imply that the liar might know he’s a liar and is trying to hide it? If a liar is trying to hide a lie isn’t it reasonable to speculate that someone is being harmed by the original lie or that there are lies to come which will harm people?
People in positions of responsibility have extra pressure to cover up mistakes and might be tempted to use their power to do so. Great responsibility doesn’t actually come with great power. Sorry, Uncle Ben, that depends on the empowered individual.
But back to Steve’s point: an edifice built on a web of lies and held up by lies and build ever larger and more dangerously by lies isn’t something we can forgive or dismiss as ignorance. Even if Trump is (as it often seems) sitting around generating new lies (which he perceives as truth) in response to every single potential slur, real, imagined, true or false, with no understanding of the harm he’s doing, he’s still a fucking liar. Many lies have direct consequences and the fact that you didn’t know what those consequences are going to be (especially if you are PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKING STATES) is no defense. The consequences of other lies are more difficult to tease out but, again, if you happen to be PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKING STATES, the lying itself is an important consequence, even if the consequences of the actual lies aren’t themselves very important.
How does reporting that some people were detained by law enforcement for allegedly celebrating, equal a claim that thousands were seen celebrating? It doesn’t, however you twist it. The reporter was telling the truth about what he’d reported, Twittler lied in every possible way.
https://www.facebook.com/144310995587370/photos/a.271728576178944.71555.144310995587370/1408209682530822/?type=3&theater