The group fears arrest
Hm. I guess some people aren’t very good at predicting highly predictable consequences of actions.
The holdouts at Malheur, for instance.
David Fry said he spoke to an FBI negotiator three times in the last 24 hours. He said the group is prepared to leave peacefully, but fears arrest.
Ah, the group fears arrest. Did they think arrest was an impossible outcome? Did they think they were there legally? Did they not realize that the wildlife refuge was not theirs to grab and take over?
One man, Sean Anderson, had been told there was a federal warrant for his arrest on charges of interfering with federal employees. Fry said FBI negotiators told him the others would be allowed to leave without facing arrest. “As a group, we were willing to leave peacefully,” Fry said. “But they want to arrest Sean, and take Sean out, and put him in jail. We don’t want to leave Sean in that situation, because that feels unfair.”
They must have known there were federal employees of the refuge, and that they were interfering with them. What, exactly, feels unfair?
The illegal seizure of a federal refuge comes under the heading of sedition. With lots of firepower involved and threats that went out to the community to shelter in place (the schools were closed), this was an armed insurrection. Most were Mormons, I think, from other states than Oregon. They need to face all applicable Federal charges. These range war zealots have to be stopped and their ideology rebutted.
Mommy, the teacher hates me. She punished me for not obeying the rules. Tell her she doesn’t get to tell me what to do!
The thing that baffles me is that it appears the others that aren’t Sean will not be arrested.
From the OP:
I agree with that argument, but it may be that the feds want something more. It’s possible that some jurors would accept that a defense of “I was just there to visit my husband/brother/friend and make sure he was ok, I didn’t threaten or interfere with anyone” is enough for reasonable doubt. And it may be that the relevant statute requires something more; I haven’t researched it.
So it may be that they’re focusing on prosecuting those who have incriminated themselves as to their intent. If you look at the Bundy arrest warrant application available here: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/bundy-arrest-warrant
you’ll see that there’s a section addressing each of the suspects personally, showing how they have made statements regarding their purpose (“to fight tyranny,” oppose the federal gov’t, etc.), and/or have been photographed or filmed holding weapons or otherwise engaging in threatening activity or otherwise declaring their purpose.
Or perhaps they just want to focus on the ringleaders.
That warrant linked above is not the one for Sean Anderson, though.
There isn’t enough evidence even to arrest the others? Not indict or convict, but just to arrest them?
Ben,
But I don’t think the goal is simply to make arrests. Any arrests that don’t lead to convictions will just get spun as vindication, overreaching by the evil feds, etc.
And I think this is an instance where the feds want to have all their ducks in a row before making arrests, because it may not be easy to get more evidence after the arrests. Once they’re arrested, their lawyers will tell them to shut the hell up and stop it with the proclamations of rebellion and so forth, and they might just be smart enough to listen.
I’m speculating, of course. But I’ve been trying to come up with an explanation for the feds’ conduct so far that doesn’t amount to (1) they’re stupid; (2) they’re cowardly; or (3) they just don’t give a crap about this crime. I suspect that given the profile of this story, the Attorney General is at least involved in this strategy, and I really don’t think the Obama administration fits any of those three narratives.
So what makes sense to me is that the feds have been waiting, letting these folks incriminate themselves with their own words and press conferences and posing for photographs, and then when they were confident they had enough to convict — not just arrest — the ringleaders, they made their move in a location that was neither the reserve itself (where the yahoos are dug-in and prepared) nor a public place (where the potential for civilian casualties was high).
And that may or may not have been the best strategy — maybe they should have just charged in on day one to show that you can’t be allowed to do this — but it’s at least a strategy.
Looks like LaVoy Finicum started with his hands raided but then reached for his gun. There’s no audio, so maybe we can’t be certain, but if you start with you’re hands raised then you should know better than to reach for your pocket-area. Did the cops say : show your driver’s license? Unlikely, since it happened so fast.
Samantha Vimes #2, the teacher-pupil relationship is not a good metaphor for the relationship of a democratic government to its citizens.
I don’t know how many readers here read Non Sequitur (the comic strip), but Wiley Miller is certainly on the ball with this story. He doesn’t usually follow current affairs very closely, but I thought today’s strip was a good and relevant one. (Perhaps more relevant, before the most recent events.)
This reminds me of something I read a few years ago about the suppression of naval piracy in the 18th-19th century. In order to be convicted as a pirate, it wasn’t sufficient to just be found among the crew of a captured pirate ship; you had to be witnessed actually engaging in combat with a weapon in your hand. The effect of this was that when a pirate ship was captured, the majority of the crew would not be found guilty of piracy. There’s an element of fairness to it – people with specific skills, like sailmakers or coopers, were often captured by pirates and set to work on board – and also an element of pragmatism – if the whole crew were going to be tried and executed anyway they would fight to the death rather than surrender. Plus of course the navy would be able to recruit / pressgang all those valuable sailors.
In this case, it does look like all the head idiots have been captured in circumstances that make them look both stupid and very very guilty. If the rest of them mostly trail off home feeling sheepish that may be a good outcome.
The far right loony culture, Posse Comitatus, Sovereign Citizen, etc. has a lot of fantasies about the law. The whole business about the County Sherriff being the highest official is one of them. There are other ridiculous legends about being untaxed if you file with caps-lock or some such.
It is quite possible that these morons believed that the law would magically evaporate before their guns and cowboy hats.
“Privilege*” is breaking multiple federal laws and being shocked, SHOCKED that you might be arrested for it.
* or maybe it’s delusion.
Well here’s hoping they leave in cuffs or bags, though I guess neither is acceptable if they can’t make the charges stick.
Here belatedly, is a comment on this whole incident.
http://russgeorge.net/2016/01/25/what-value-does-a-wildlife-refuge/