Guest post: There was this thing called “femininity”
Lady Mondegreen offered me a comment she made elsewhere as a guest post and I snapped it up.
If you insist that the meaning of woman can no longer be tied to biological sex (“a woman is an adult female human being,” where “female” means “body which produces egg rather than sperm cells,” or “body which most closely resembles those had by egg-producers,”) then how do you define it?
I’ve been told that a woman is “a person who identifies as a woman,” a circular definition that reduces “woman” to a self-chosen “identity.” It says nothing about why anyone would choose to be a woman. It also erases millions of women who never chose their identity as women, and certainly have no say in the social implications of being one–in other words, the class of people, worldwide, who are oppressed because they were born in bodies that produced ova rather than sperm (or were externally physically indistinguishable from them.)
When I was a kid, there was this thing called “femininity.” It consisted of the presumed attributes of a woman: passivity, gentleness, nurturing tendencies (including a deep desire to have and care for babies,) fondness for pastels, intuitiveness, and other qualities. Some of the qualities were negative: inferior intelligence (especially with regards to math and science,) relative lack of leadership qualities, indecisiveness, pettiness, a fascination with trivialities, a tendency to gossip. They were all normative.
I don’t think it’s enough to divorce the negative qualities from “femininity.” And I don’t think it’s enough to divorce “femininity” from “biologically female.” I think we need to divorce “femininity” (and its contemporary equivalent, woman-as-gender,) from “woman.”
But we do need to acknowledge the class of people who are despised and oppressed because they were born in bodies that produce ova rather than sperm. Furthermore, we need to acknowledge that they are oppressed, in large part, because of the bodies they were born into–however they identify (assuming they have the privilege to “identify” as anything, outside of what their society tells them they are.)
(And as long as saying the above triggers abuse [“TERF,” “bigot,” “cis scum,” “subhuman,”] the movement for equal rights for egg-bearers is going to have a problem.)
Well said
Very well said indeed.
I’m still seeing femininity pushed on girls. There’s more options these days, especially as one grows older, but I’ve taught math classes and seen girls scared by social pressure not to show how smart they are. Even as an adult with years on my classmates at school, I’d have people appreciate me taking lead, but then turn around and say I was “kind of pushy”, “aggressive”, or “kind of masculine” simply because I was a leader– I asked for input, never finalized a decision without clearly establishing we had a consensus in our group, etc. I just wasn’t supposed to be so decisive and task-oriented. And it *hurts* to be called aggressive when you’ve bent over backwards to be accommodating and check in with everyone, but it doesn’t hurt as much when you know it’s sexism, not a healthy evaluation.
That’s just as it is, and thank you for laying it out so lucidly.
Samantha, at what age did you see math-phobia show up in girls? Back in the day I coached my kid’s Math Olympics team (grades 4-6) and there were plenty of girls participating enthusiastically, but I did not see the girls that did not join the math team. TMK plenty of girls in my kid’s year are taking Calculus, but I don’t know the actual gender make-up of the class.
While I understand Dr. Myers’ position, why the hell can’t he say who it is that “told” him he “must deal with a ‘misogynistic’ statement expressed on Freethoughtblogs by Lux Pickel”?
I am guessing it was by email, which is generally considered a private channel. Also, I think calling that article ‘misogynistic’ is an overstep from hoever it was; I would simply call it airheaded.
If woman = “person who identifies as a woman” then… what on earth are people identifying _as_? “A person who identifies as a person who identifies as a person who…” is not an identity. I don’t think they think what they think they think.
We love to hate Brenden O’Neill, so why not..
http://www.spiked-online.com/spiked-review/article/the-crisis-of-character#.VokQ4lItLcv
John, as an Israeli the ‘what do you identify as?’ was a Big Question that we were required to think of. Teachers would have us argue whether we identify most as ‘Jewish’, ‘Israeli’, ‘Human’, ‘Resident of City X’ or something else. And we were told it was hugely important because there were consequences. This was back in the 1980s.
It was me. On Twitter, saying that FtB culture had gotten so out of hand he ought to do something about it. I get that he didn’t like that, and I wasn’t nice about it.
I stand by my characterization that Lux Pickel’s article was misogynistic. Yes, I know that’s a very strong term. Like “racist,” most people really want to make sure the word is rarely used, and when it is used, they want it only to refer to the most brazen expressions of hatred for women.
I disagree. I believe there is a fundamental misognyny that’s deeper and more complicated than the raw shouting of “cunt!!!” that we usually associate with the word. And I think it animates this strand of trans activism.
If that makes onlookers uncomfortable, I’m OK with that as a consequence. I may be wrong, of course, and you may think I’m overstating the case.
Well, I think I agree with you, for one. I generally like to keep the word “misogyny” for actual hatred as opposed to non-acceptance of equality, because the latter is compatible with affection, and we get confused if we lose sight of that. But yes, I think this sweating eagerness to erase women from the framing of abortion rights is at root misogynist – which means there are quite a few self-hating women out there…which is nothing new.
I debated using the word because of all those conflicting impulses. It is a strong word, and it shouldn’t be diluted. But it seems to me that, in this extended debate, the fundamental concept of misogyny is being diluted by neglect. Intellectual neglect and the failure of many to take responsibility for calling it what it is. This reticence is understandable, but not productive. I do think it’s very much like the timidity about using the term “racist.” That does not, in fact, function to preserve the word’s important connotations. It functions to foreclose the possibility of racism as something to be challenged or discussed at all.
Hm; interesting. My experience has been (or what my brain decides to remember has been) people using it when they clearly mean sexism. I guess the chances are good that both things are happening.
I saw you call him out, Josh, and I really appreciated it. It really disappointed me because I really respect and admire P.Z. and I’ve never seen him miss a point this badly before. Things have gotten really ugly. Pointing out sex-based oppression gets you labelled a TERF and it’s like you can’t say anything about human anatomy–even when it’s relevant and necessary–without being told you’re being a bad person. I’m sorry to see that you left Twitter (and I hope I didn’t fave too excessively!).
@John
That Brendan O’Neill piece. Ewww.
He describes the problem fairly well; then of course claims that the solution is a return to ye Good Olde Days when everybody knew his (or her) place.
By the by, on the thread where I made the comment that became this post (over at PZ’s place,) someone accused me of saying that egg bearing is a woman’s primary characteristic. I forget exactly how he–it was a he*–put it and can’t be bothered to go back and check, but it was a small and ugly masterpiece of straw.
Thank you, Josh Spokes, for your reply. I was frustrated by Dr. Myers simply saying that he had been “told” that he must do a thing, with no other information. When someone avers something so general in nature – and he was under no obligation to reveal identifying information, no! – I become skeptical of the claim. As it is, thank you a lot more for striving to get across those points. My frustration with (portions of ) FtB grows.
Lady Mondegreen, the amount you rock was never achieved by Lemmy, though that was his wish until his dying day.
@ 17 Lady Mondegreen
It was Hornbeck. Fancy that.
At least PZ acknowledged that the system of “governance” in place is absolute garbage. The fact that he feels helpless/refuses to do anything about the state of things is decidedly not in his favor.
Aw, clamboy, thanks.
*blush*