Grothe makes diversity a priority
This is funny/interesting. From Jennifer Ouellette’s piece on the cold climate for women among atheists and skeptics:
Foster top-down change. Leadership, especially male leadership, needs to set the tone for what is and is not acceptable in a community…
JREF president DJ Grothe did just that when, a few days before TAM9, he openly addressed the rift caused by “Elevatorgate” and made it clear that unwanted sexual advances or other harassing behavior were unacceptable, and grounds for being ejected from the conference. Grothe also deserves credit for making diversity a priority in his selection of speakers and topic. That’s the mark of a true leader, and the JREF is lucky to have him.
What’s funny/interesting about that is that I briefly talked about the subject with DJ right here, four years ago, after I’d spent a couple of weeks at CFI in Amherst. I pointed out what a boys’ club it was (and it certainly was) and DJ commented to say yes it is, and he was always trying to improve the situation.
(Also funny/interesting, given that, that he’s never invited me to talk at TAM. Then again maybe it’s not; I’m probably just boring.)
(I did a talk last night [or rather a reading] and I was certainly boring then, but then they forgot to give me the dinner they’d promised [and because of which I hadn’t already eaten an early dinner] or anything to drink other than water in a plastic cup plus it was dark plus it was noisy, because in a bar. You’d be boring too with all that.)
Ah yes, I found it. Leaving Amherst.
I tell you what though: it is a boys’ club. I’m sorry to say that, but it is. (You know it is, you CfI people, if any of you are reading this. Look up the hall, look down the hall; look up and down the other hall; you know what you see. Consider, and repent.) That’s probably not entirely its fault though: on average women seem not to be as interested in this kind of thing as men are. I find that highly irritating, and also all the more reason for me to remain very interested, and to redouble my efforts to annoy everyone within hearing on the subject. If there are fewer women, then the women there are have to be all the more noisy and obstreperous.
That was then. There are more women now. Or the same number but they’re more noisy and obstreperous. Or some of both.
Here’s DJ’s brief comment. Little did we (at least I) know then…
I think youre absolutely right about it being a boy’s club, Ophelia. For what it is worth, in my time here, five of the six employees I have hired are females, but that is a drop in the bucket in this place.
Yep. It really was very male.
Bah, I’m really sorry our group dropped the ball :( Or usual organizer was gone, so it was a little more chaotic. For what it’s worth, I didn’t think you were boring at all!
But yeah, the venue sucked. I hope we move somewhere else…
:- )
The people are swell, Jen. The venue…ya, it sucked.
I’ve got no money and no group.
I’ll make you a deal: you record an hour worth of cool-ass lecture on your favorite subject, from your house but with reasonable audio values, and I’ll send you some gift cards to your favorite eateries. If I’m lying, I’m dying. Seems like you have bigger fans than me, but can they do better?
You should put that on your business card.
DJ. BEST. POI Podcast Host. EVER.
Doesn’t surprise me he is on the ball. But I am glad he is being on the ball and proactive.
Improbable Joe, I like your style.
Hey Cam… I’m glad you dig it. My “style” is hard to dig, truth be told. I’m a whole stampede of bulls through a china shop, I’m super sensitive and super insensitive all at once. I’ve got my own views and I’m not delicate enough to tip-toe around other views. I tend to stomp all over shit Godzilla-style, and piss off the people who I agree with even more than the folks I disagree with.
So, I’m all like “you guys rock, I love you” and “you guys rock, but you’re all being idiots!” and occasionally “you guys rock, and I’ve got $80 worth of Olive Garden gift cards if you’re feeling froggy.”
Sastra’s comment #35 in that old thread is great! Year-round “Thanksgiving Table Diplomacy”…
Interesting position for the head of the most public skeptical society in the world to be taking – censuring the behavior and speech of thousands of people after hearing only one side of a story of an undramatic scene in an elevator.
I have to say I have lost interest in Point of Inquiry since DJ left. POI’s loss is JREF’s gain.
@9
Censuring? Hyperbole much?
TAM seemed to be close to 50% female this year. It was hard to count, what with 1600 people there, but it no longer seems to be mainly male.
I do have to agree though that South Point Casino has become a lousy venue.
What? A reading in a bar? And no dinner? ¡Escandoloso!
“Censuring? Hyperbole much?”
Yes, censuring. How else to interpret threatening a ban for “unwanted” sexual advances? Do you think it would not have a chilling effect on the behavior of people?
You seem to mean censoring, not censuring.
Ditto @12, re: the South Point Casino venue .
Oh, CFI is improving by leaps and bounds.
I just got the new issue of Free Inquiry yesterday and the first leap was an Op-Ed on page #15 by Ophelia Benson.
Then, when I bounded to the center of the magazine I discovered a big 2-page ad for a CFI conference in Orlando next March with featured speaker Ophelia Benson.
I am hopping with excitement, and hoping I can get to Florida next spring — for the climate. It’s getting better.
Oh, really? My Free Inquiry hasn’t arrived yet! West coast thing, no doubt.
There’s also a CFI conference in DC in June, Women and Secularism; I get to talk there too. Wafa Sultan will be there. Exciting!
Given the competition that’s not really saying much.
Well, quite, but nontheless, I used to listen to it constantly when he was hosting. Always measured, always asking good questions, always making sure he was not misinterpreting what his interviewee was getting at.
Didja hear mine?!
Oh dear: You do realize that making unwanted sexual advances is plenty enough to get you fired from any reasonably aware organization in America, don’t you? Try it at work sometime and see what happens! It is bad behaviour to say the least and when accompanied, as it often is, by coercion by threat, real or implied, (by a boss, by a stronger person in a confined space, you name it….) it can easily cross the line to become a crime. This is NOT trivial stuff! I would hope this ban WOULD have a chilling effect on the behaviour of crass, stupid, bullies.
Oh but you see sailor there were scare-quotes on “unwanted” – because of course the unwanted sexual advances aren’t really unwanted at all, it’s just those femtard bitches pretending they’re unwanted so that they can castrate everyone.
D.J. Grothe is cool guy, if only because he’s the person who hired me to work at CFI!
Oh sorry Ophelia, I didn’t see that. Never having been castrated by a femtard bitch, amongst all the wonderful women I have known, I just don’t know about these things. I do know, however, that my grandmother would NOT have approved of me asking women to come to my room at 4am…..
I have to say I also have a problem with the phrase ‘unwanted sexual advances.’ (I put the whole phrase in quotes…I don’t want to scare anyone) It seems to imply (unless I’m reading it incorrectly) that ‘wanted’ sexual advances would be acceptable. But how could anyone know beforehand whether a sexual advance is wanted or unwanted? I suppose the target might say (s)he’d appreciate a sexual advance. But that itself might be an unwanted sexual advance. Since it seems impossible to tell beforehand whether a sexual advance is wanted or unwanted, wouldn’t it just be best to say all sexual advances are unacceptable? In which case, the word unwanted seems unnecessary, and perhaps even worthy of scare quotes.
I take it all back. It doesn’t matter. Grothe never uses the phrase ‘sexual advance.’ Wanted or unwanted be damned.
Ophelia, I’m not sure if I’ve read your post correctly, but I understand it to mean that you were invited to speak at a function where you’d been promised a meal. No meal was forthcoming and despite the fact that the function was in a bar, no-one troubled to buy you a drink.
If that’s the case, I think we may be getting closer to the source of the problem. Ouellette makes the point in her essay that she has been in a large number of male-dominated environments and never encountered what I’m going to call ‘social oddness’. These environments include a martial arts dojo and a corporation.
It strikes me as reasonably basic manners to buy an invited guest speaker a meal and a drink and to cover their transport costs to and from the venue. It also strikes me as reasonably basic manners not to chat up a guest speaker after they’ve delivered their address. This is not because they are a woman or man or whatever, but because they are the guest speaker.
Maybe my political conservatism (UK version) and profession (law) means that I am willing to be more consciously hierarchical than some other people, but I think it is useful to have a bit of social distance between teachers and students, heads-of-chambers and junior counsel, invited speakers and attendees, and in other analogous relationships. I called my pupil-master ‘Mr _____’ until I was called, and it did not harm our relationship (which took in mentoring and instruction as well as employment) one bit.
If other male-dominated environments are free of this sort of thing, and it seems even women skeptics can drop the ball on basic courtesy, then maybe skeptics and atheists and their friends need to avail themselves of a little social lubrication (of the non-alcoholic sort). One of the best and simplest guides on this sort of thing comes from the Society of Authors:
http://www.societyofauthors.org/sites/default/files/Guidance%20for%20Festival%20Organisers_0.pdf
skepticlawyer, yes you read it correctly, that’s exactly what happened. I did eventually get “food” of a kind, but not until I finally went to look for the guy nominally in charge and point out that I hadn’t had anything to eat, by which time it was so late I had to bolt it, and it wasn’t really food anyway. No drink. No transport costs covered. I would have eaten a horridly early dinner beforehand, if they hadn’t specifically said “the first hour is socializing/eating and your dinner is on us.” And yes, exactly: it’s just basic manners. If you invite a guest, you treat the guest like a guest. You don’t just say “There are some empty seats” and leave it at that.
As I suspected. That is very unfortunate and rude. It is just as bad as chatting up a guest speaker in the lift. Since everyone else has been offering scenarios of all sorts based on the lift incident, here’s one based on your non-meal: what if you were diabetic?
This issue, incidentally, is covered in the Society of Authors material.
Yes, that was my view of it. I asked half the people I knew the next day – is it me or is this incredibly bad manners? The latter, everyone said. Dear oh dear.
“Incredibly bad manners” is an understatement. It was also excessively good manners to neglect to tell us the name of this organization, so the rest of us can avoid it in the future.
It’s local. Check with me before accepting any invitations in Seattle!
[…] the different conferences. We might expect that there would not be a linear trend, as there were renewed efforts to enhance diversity prior to TAM9. I’ll consider more complex statistical models after eye-balling the data to see which is […]