Discipline
Must stop must stop must stop. Must stop arguing with ridiculous guy on Facebook who calls Ibn Warraq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan “racists” because he dislikes them. He’s lily white himself of course. Must stop must stop must stop.
He’s a “humanist,” according to him. He’s yet another anti-gnu. He’s a chump. Must stop must stop must stop.
I did a podcast interview earlier this afternoon with Johan Signert of the Swedish Humanists.
I’m invited to the Let the Light Howthelightgetsin thingy at Hay on Wye. I just might do it.
Haven’t read the argument, but surely he forgot to mention that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is also “sexist.”
His name is not Ian Buruma by any chance?
Alas, Ophelia, sometimes you need to bang your head against a brick wall just because it feels so good when you stop.
White folks love to call other white folks ‘racist’. It helps them feel superior.
Of course there are real racists, but it’s pretty easy to spot those.
Perhaps,
if he would like to meet real racists he should visit any social housing estate in England. I don’t think he would survive to tell the tale.
Oh yes, the “you’re a racist for criticizing Islam” non-sequitur. They should start including this on intelligence quotient tests.
Seriously, what is with this guy? Mark Vernon writes a mind-numbingly lame article to which several people point out and he thinks we’re all after his hide? Seriously, the rest of us might be windbags but it seems Jerry Falwell wasn’t the only one who might have fit into a matchbox after having an enema. Disgusting!
And you’re right Ophelia, I had to summon all of my inner will to resist commenting on his link at FB. He has his own loyal coterie (actually there’s only one) who seldom fail to commit themselves to perpetual asslick-athons.
Not being on Facebook (no, no, no I won’t), I simply must know if this person is someone “known,” or just some anonymous schmuck.
Slightly off topic but a must see, Louis Theroux revisits the Westboro Baptists. From last Sunday night on the bbc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ticxD0GfewA&feature=BF&list=PL9FE9DB9B8C9810AC&index=1
If you do make it to Hay, let us know. It could be an occasion for another visit there.
I agree with Ophelia, sight unseen. She must stop. People who have nothing of value to contribute to the world are always ecstatic to suck away the time of those who have.
But of course, I would say that. I even agree with Polly-O!
@ Andy. Why don’t we just go the whole hog on the anti-Islamist racism canard? If people who have a problem with what Islam preaches (pretty bloody forcefully, too, let’s not forget) are racists, then let’s get all the people who hate those with a different skin colour and make them suffer all the opprobrium we have to suffer as Gnu Atheists. And while we’re at it, let’s not forget all the bloody homophobes who don’t like the vertically challenged. Or the anti-feminists who have it in for the philatelists. You get the idea.
On Sigmund’s off-topic, I watched it two days ago and it does kind of have to be seen to be believed. The interviews with the defectors juxtaposed with the pre-defection footage of them was quite something. I was hoping Theroux would ask Shirley if she had any hunches as to who’d be next, but she came close to answering anyway when she said she’s watching everybody. The whole thing made me feel that it wasn’t so much the religious fanaticism that had caused such extreme dysfunctionality, but almost the reverse, that the religious fanaticism is an outgrowth of the dysfunctionality originating with the old man.
Stewart, I agree with you about the Louis Theroux program. They also seem to be turning into an end of times cult with the potential to go the way of the Jim Jones cult. I suspect that as soon as Fred dies the whole thing will immediately fall apart. The wierd thing was that the children aren’t completely immersed in a society that agrees with them and so are always teetering on the edge of rationality.
He’s a hypocrite, who indulges his own patronizing, comfortable racism by taking proxy offense on behalf of those poor, abused brown people. As if they haven’t the capacity to think and speak for themselves, or stand up to real persecution when they get it from, say, their own governments and religious manipulators. Great White Father is here to defend them from the pain of hearing criticism, while they live under a pain he never had to know. He’s content to leave every individual among them under an ethnic and religious dome, a mental cage, that will define their life choices for them from cradle to grave, whether they are happy or not. When did so many self-described humanists become apologists for burying people in their ethnic identities, and calling it kindness? It’s an abrogation of the humanist’s first duty — to defend the individual conscience and the freedom to inquire. That is what Hirsi Ali, Warraq, and Sultan stand for.
@ Sigmund
Well, a contrast that jumps out would be, say, with the Amish, though they have some kind of opting in or out period when they grow up, don’t they? Or ultra-Orthodox Judaism. The WBC youth is out almost every day engaging in high-profile conflict with the surrounding world. That bit about it only being about 9 a.m. and they were already on their third protest of the day, having started about 5-ish in the dark, was a startler, wasn’t it? So in one sense, they’re not at all sequestered. They’re not expected to be ignorant of the world, they’re expected to know about it and be in frenetically active opposition to it. Lots of people talk to them when they’re picketing. One could easily say something that breaks through or starts a process of thinking. Ultimately they must be doomed as a group. One can only hope that there’ll be more whimper than bang when it reaches its conclusion.
@Stewart, I remember the first documentary when they explained that the kids are not home schooled, they go to the local highschool. They also seem to be employed in ordinary jobs – such as nursing, where they must mix with others. It’s probably best for those who haven’t seen it to watch it and make up their own minds, I have to say I was very impressed with the way Louis approached the topic.
Josh (@ #9) – he was an anonymous schmuck to me, but of course I looked him up, and he’s written books and articles etc, so not all that anonymous.
@Sigmund, yes I did see it, probably when it came out, 2007, right? Some details may have gone astray in my head, but it certainly left an impression. Interesting that they didn’t decide to compensate for the old man’s refusal to let Theroux near him this time by showing any of the earlier encounter.
I saw the incident but friends of friends can’t comment. It’s probably just as well. I had never heard of the fellow, and ignorance truly was bliss.
People really need to differentiate between ideology and skin color. Certainly, there are people who, under their phony “criticism” of Islam, really just don’t like anyone from a different country; however, to assume that criticism that is actually based on the ideas in Islam (not based on country, skin color etc.) is racist is ridiculous. It becomes even more ridiculous when you consider that all three of the people’s he’s citing have themselves escaped from the ideology they’re criticizing, and if it was actually racism, they’d be discriminating against themselves.
What’s really upsetting is that whenever there’s an actual example of racism, people will cite ridiculous claims like this one to pretend that racism doesn’t exist anymore.
About the Westboro BC. Oh dear, I knew about them in the abstract but to see them up close in that doc was so chilling. All those children with fucked up minds – religion is a form of child abuse. and yet, one is struck by how right the likes of Shirley Phelp are about the nature of their God – a vicious, vile and vengeful beast. The Phelps are way more honest than most Christians in admitting and taking that shit seriously.
@17…Ophelia, darling … I don’t know why someone who has published “books and articles” has to be afforded more respect than anyone else.
Hell, I’ve published THOUSANDS of articles. Probably up to 10,000 or so — and PAID to do so (I’ve been a professional writer in one way or another since 1975). Doesn’t make me better — just better published.
It’s the ideas that count, not the volume, nor the venue in which those ideas are expressed.
Else you’d have to respect Glenn Beck (13 books) more than PZ Myers (1, as per Amazon).