What we talk about when we talk about riots
Johann responds to the riots. He apologizes humbly; he explains that he only meant that free speech is a good idea in general but not of course if it offends anyone, or risks offending anyone, or might offend anyone if the wind were from the north, or could conceivably offend a very touchy person who hadn’t eaten in four days and had a hangover; he says it has always been his view that writers and journalists and thinkers and polemicists should always first consult with the community, and the leaders of the community, and the spiritual guides of the community, and every cleric within a five thousand mile radius, and Wall Street, and the tide tables, and a homeopath, before writing anything longer than a shopping list or more substantive than a signature on a check. He says he doesn’t know what got into him when he wrote that article that so offended some very nice people (men mostly, or entirely) in Kolkata that they rioted so enthusiastically that the central city was shut down. He says it must have been something he et. He says from now on he will write only friendly, indeed affectionate things about religion.
No he doesn’t. He does the other thing.
What should an honest defender of free speech say in this position? Every word I wrote was true. I believe the right to openly discuss religion, and follow the facts wherever they lead us, is one of the most precious on earth — especially in a democracy of a billion people rivven with streaks of fanaticism from a minority of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs. So I cannot and will not apologize.
Attaboy. Not that it so much as occurred to me that he would say anything else.
It’s also worth going through the arguments of the Western defenders of these protesters, because they too aren’t going away. Already I have had e-mails and bloggers saying I was “asking for it” by writing a “needlessly provocative” article. When there is a disagreement and one side uses violence, it is a reassuring rhetorical stance to claim both sides are in the wrong, and you take a happy position somewhere in the middle. But is this true? I wrote an article defending human rights, and stating simple facts. Fanatics want to arrest or kill me for it. Is there equivalence here?
Uh – no. We need to defend human rights, and we need to defend our right to defend human rights, as people rioting and arresting and threatening make all too horribly clear. It’s bottomlessly depressing that anyone thinks Johann did anything conceivably remotely wrong, any more than Sayed Pervez Kambaksh did, as Johann points out:
[C]ompare my experience to that of journalists living under religious-Islamist regimes. Because generations of people sought to create a secular space, when I went to the police, they offered total protection. When they go to the police, they are handed over to the fanatics — or charged for their “crimes.” They are people like Sayed Pervez Kambaksh, the young Afghan journalism student who was sentenced to death for downloading a report on women’s rights. They are people like the staff of Zanan, one of Iran’s leading reform-minded women’s magazines, who have been told they will be jailed if they carry on publishing. They are people like the 27-year old Muslim blogger Abdel Rahman who has been seized, jailed and tortured in Egypt for arguing for a reformed Islam that does not enforce shariah law.
Yeah.
At the end of the piece, as at the end of the Indy piece that so outraged the rioters, Johann urges people to read B&W. If I had a flag I would wave it.
Great post, Ophelia. If only there were more Johan Haris and Bensons! Hari’s article was reprinted in other blogs like the Malaysian one I told you about and the nastiness in Calcutta might spread as these ‘outrages’ have a habit of doing. Liberals who advocate self-censorship work for the theocrats and dictators, never the innocents. Sadly there seem to be too many such in the west. Robert Fox’s recent article on the Wilders brouhaha in Cif – he glowingly references Buruma numerous times- is a case in point of how so many still have not got the point. 20 years after Rushdie. Makes me want to bang my head against the wall.
I bet 90% of the Huffpos who come here will be complaining of your treatment of Islam. They may even like Johann’s article, but they will still NOT get it.
Its amazing how blunted the critical faculties of the younger generation has become. Most dont understand what free speech entails and cannot connect that to natural rights. Most live in a comfortable world where they never had to face first hand tyranny, irrationality, or oppression.
If and when the push comes to shove, do not automatically assume you can rely on this generation.
I would like to express my free speech which is as follows: Jesus Christ died for your sins. You must repent of your sins and accept Him as your Lord and Saviour. If you do this you wll go to Heaven, if you do not accept Christ you will go to Hell.
Bob, how do you know that?
That’s great, Bob! If it works for you, go right ahead!
I want to know how Bob knows. It’s an epistemological question.
Well, Eric, what works for Bob is not what works for me. What works for me is the following bit of impudence: “We should never relinquish, nor lightly value, our right, not to argue in the face of other people’s gods, but to fart.”
(Matthew Parris, The Times, February 04, 2006)
Not that we Canucks enjoy that right. Not until we repeal sec. 296 of the Criminal Code of Canada.
Bob,
You’re free to say it, shout it, sing it, wear it as a T-shirt or stick it on a billboard. All of which are common.
If you want to present it as an argument, the convention is that you back it up with something more than an assertion.
Good for Johann. Again.
“with something more than an assertion.”
Hence wondering how he knows.
Speaking of good for Johann, and believing ‘the right to openly discuss religion, and follow the facts wherever they lead us, is one of the most precious on earth’ – I am in receipt of notes from the proofreader of Does God Hate Women on possible ‘defamation of Islam’ in various places. Well then we might as well not have bothered writing the book.
Ophelia have you seen Stephen Poole’s snippy comment on this business?
http://unspeak.net/
Please respond!
Uh oh – no, I haven’t. Poole and I don’t get along – he fights dirty.
I’ll have a look; thanks, Beth.
Yeah, I saw that snippy article too and saw that Stephen Poole quoted Stanley Fish – remember you did a piece on Stanley Fish and his airy dismissal of censorship? Calling Salman Rushdie the “self-appointed poster boy” of the First Amendment?
Yup, I remember.
Actually I don’t disagree with the substance of what Poole says there. I dislike the snippy tone (Hari dissed Zizek once, and Poole blew a gasket – perhaps that has something to do with the tone) but I think he’s basically right – I think Johann put his free speech claims too broadly in places. That’s why I didn’t quote those bits!
The bit about facts and value judgments is harsh but not inaccurate.
Not very helpful, am I.
Poole tends to win arguments about Zizek by the simple expedient of having actually read some of his books. Personally I have only read articles by Zizek, and this has rather put me off going further. His short book reviews are always interesting. He has a few blind spots (Dawkins can bring out the worst in some people) but he is generally a fairly sound guy.
Well no. Poole objects to people criticizing Zizek on the basis of what he takes to be less reading of Zizek than he has done, but he doesn’t stop with that; he also engages in baseless abuse (and he never actually makes it clear how he knows how much Zizek his enemies have or haven’t read).
Excellent deconstruction of Zizek by Adam Kirsch (lovely bit of writing) here:
http://www.tnr.com/booksarts/story.html?id=097a31f3-c440-4b10-8894-14197d7a6eef
And the demolition, er, deconstruction continues in the ensuing back-and-forth.
Yeah, I had that in News when it came out. Also, a bit later, a long discussion at the Valve, starting from a John Holbo post and continuing as a protracted discussion between Holbo and Adam Kotsko and others. Kotsko irritable as always, but the discussion is interesting all the same.
Holbo thinks what Kotsko thinks is in Zizek is actually not in Zizek but rather in what Kotsko gets out of Zizek, which inspires him. I think that’s a useful and important distinction.
The resurrection of Christ is the evidence that backs up the assertion.
Regardless of the debate on free speech, it seems that the main factual substance and inspiration for Johann’s articles is, er, somewhat less than factual.
“The UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights has always had the job of investigating governments who forcibly take the fundamental human right to free speech from their citizens with violence. But in the past year, a coalition of religious fundamentalist states has successfully fought to change her job description. Now, she has to report on “abuses of free expression” including “defamation of religions and prophets.” Instead of defending free speech, she must now oppose it. “
There is no “UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights”. In fact there are currently 36 Special Rapporteurs, whose various mandates include “Human Rights Defenders”, “Protecting Human Rights while Countering Terrorism”, “Freedom of Opinion and Expression”, and, yes, “Freedom of Religion or Belief” – appointed in 2004.
Bob said “The resurrection of Christ is the evidence that backs up the assertion”
But Bob, you’ve just used another unjustified assertion in an attempt to justify your first assertion. How do you know that the story of the resurrection of Christ is true?
I would urge you to obtain the booklet “Evidence for the resurrection” by Sir Norman Anderson or “Who moved the stone” by Frank Morrison. Mr Morrison originally set out to disprove the resurrection but when he sifted through the evidence he was changed and became a Christian.
Bob, I said that if that works for you, that’s great. That was supposed to be a snide dismissal. But if you start arguing for the nonsense that you speak, you can’t just refer to books. You have to give plausible reasons for believing something. In the case of the ressurection there is none (and I do mean none).
Frank Morrison may have become a Christian after sifting throught the evidence. This just shows that Frank Morrison doesn’t know how to assess evidence. There is no convincing extra biblical evidence for something anything like a resurrection. There is not even a clear idea what is meant by resurrection. The NT evidence is so confused it is impossible to accept as evidence. There is no evidence that there was a grave, a stone, that the stone was rolled away, no evidence that some known people saw the risen Christ or where (Jerusalem or Galilee? – your choice), no evidence for the time he spent after his supposed resurrection amongst his disciples, no evidence for something the NT and Christians call the ascension. None.
But as I say, if believing nonsense works for you, go ahead, but really, that doesn’t give you a license to try to tell others that something so obviously confabulated is true. As for Frank Morrison becoming a Christian. Alister McGrath continues to harangue us with the claim that he was an atheist once (as a teen-ager). He wasn’t really an atheist. He clearly didn’t think it through. He play atheism as a rather labile teenager. Let’s say he toyed with atheist ideas, but he thinks this gives him the right to pretend that, because he was an atheist, his Christianity is now much more believable. It isn’t. Neither is yours.
It’s a tall tale. Maybe symbolic, but the symbolism is cruel. You go back to your corner now, and believe what you want. If it works for you, that’s great, but don’t try to peddle knock-offs of these shabby goods here.
Have a heart, Eric; I wouldn’t actually encourage Bob to believe baseless truth claims. You never know, he might be capable of learning.
I’m sorry OB, but anyone who says:
has neither a heart nor a mind. I thought a sniffy dismissal might send him on his way, but if he wants to argue the point…. well…
There is no “UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights”. In fact there are currently 36 Special Rapporteurs, whose various mandates include…”Freedom of Opinion and Expression”, and, yes, “Freedom of Religion or Belief”
Yes, and in spring of 2008 the mandate of that special rapporteur was changed to include policing for ‘abuses’ of expression that offend religion.
Exactly. Which is exactly why it is important to offend religion just as much as we possibly can, otherwise a dangerous respect will become the norm, and silence will be required. We have to reopen the agenda of the 18th century, because the Enlightenment affected only a small part of the religious world. Religion in Asia and Africa has been living on borrowed time. Christians are trying to buy their notes back. Time to call in some debts!
The reason why you don’t believe is because the devil has blinded you. Unless God opens your eyes you will stay in that blindness. However, if God has chosen you then you will believe in Christ. This is clearly taught in John 6 v 37.
You’re very amusing Bob, but not that amusing.
Ah – so God opens your eyes or not, and if not, then you get tortured in hell forever, yet you apparently worship this God. What a twisted moral sense.
Twisted moral sense, Ophelia? Surely, lack of moral sense would be more like it. Like Muslims, the dyed in the wool Christian believes that simply for disbelieving something that is such a long shot that no one would even buy a lottery ticket for it we will be punished for eternity, flames and boiling water, and all the rest of that smut. But if you say that it is smut, and offensive, and that their prophet is a monster, they’ll censor you. (They’ll certainly shun you. I know that much. There’s not a huge difference between shunning a person and censoring a book.) But somehow I think that Bob’s having us on. Is he for real?
“Unless God opens your eyes you will stay in that blindness.” This is clearly taught in John 6 v 37.”
Wow, is this not scary and threatening language?!
Obviously Bob feels he must adhere to believing it in order to survive.? He really believes, we too, will be blinded if we do not abide by John.
What a load of poppycock.
Eric, it doesn’t matter if this particular Bob is the real deal – there are literally millions of people who do believe exactly the same mind-numbing dreck that he’s wasting electrons on here. People believing utter bollocks for no good reason – for no reasons at all that deserve the name ‘reasons’ – is the inevitable consequence of the perpetual valorization of faith. Get people to believe that just deciding to believe something as a matter of will is any sort of path to knowledge and such people can be persuaded to swallow any quantity and quality of nonsense, to embrace obvious falsehoods with more fervor and conviction than should ever be attached to any truth claim. Epistemic chaos with a side of violent fanaticism – the real fruits of faith.
I dare say Steven Poole’s comments may be ‘snippy’ but it isn’t entirely unreasonable to point out that Johann Hari hasn’t been entirely consistent in his defence of free speech, is it?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2007/oct/11/bloggersturnbritainslibell
I dare say Steven Poole’s comments may be ‘snippy’ but it isn’t entirely unreasonable to point out that Johann Hari hasn’t been entirely consistent in his defence of free speech, is it?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2007/oct/11/bloggersturnbritainslibell
Being completely consistent with anything is not a problem if (but only if) we have free speech. What happens when you don’t have free speech is that those who are permitted to speak don’t need to worry about truth or consistency or anything else.
On the other hand, if someone accuses a journalist of making stories up without justification, that is in fact to attack, not only his integrity, but his employment. For such things, one might well be concerned about libel, and might quite justly sue someone. (I have not looked at the particular issue of Johann Hari’s libel suit. It’s a different issue.) This has nothing in itself to do with free speech. Even with free speech you are not permitted knowingly to tell lies about others, and you may be held to account if you do. I have no idea of the circumstances in this case, but it is a separate issue, though British libel laws may not be. Free speech does not mean that you may libel, slander or defame someone, but being offensive to someone’s beliefs or pet peeves is another thing altogether.
Ophelia,
Reg listed four special rapporteurs. Which one had his mandate changed, and do you have a reference?
AphilosopherattheHumanRightsCouncilartikelAustinDacey
UN: Defence of Rapporteur on Free Expression. Furthermore, on 27 March 2008, the UNHRC approved a resolution on … [t]o protect the mandate of the…[w]ould require the Special Rapporteur to ‘report on instances where the abuse … [b]ut also to those that may offend, shock or disturb any or all of us. …
http://www.englishpen.org/writersinprison/bulletins/undefenceofrapporteuronfreeexpression/
Oops, I meant to include a link and forgot. Thanks M-T. Mine was to a different piece, but one also by Austin Dacey.
“In March 2008, during the eighth session of the HRC, the coalition went further to curb expression at the Council itself. The mandate of the Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression was changed so that it now includes policing the world for “abuses” of expression that offend religion (this in the context of the release of “Fitna”).”
This has nothing in itself to do with free speech.
Agreed but it is salient to the manner in which Johann Hari frames it. He says the answer to free speech is always more free speech – unless of course the free speech concerns him in which case he gets a lawyer instead.
Shuggy. I still don’t see your point. The answer to free speech is always more free speech. The answer to defamation is a lawyer. What’s the problem with that?
Thanks both to Ophelia and Marie-Therese for the link.
Unfortunately, the resolution in question does not establish what Hari says it does.
Hari writes in the original piece that “The UN rapporteur who is supposed to be the global guardian of free speech has had his job rewritten – to put him on the side of the religious censors.” And: “[T]he job has been turned on its head. Instead of condemning the people who wanted to murder Salman Rushdie, they will be condemning Salman Rushdie himself.”
In his follow up piece, he reiterates:
“Now, [The S.R.] has to report on “abuses of free expression” including “defamation of religions and prophets.” Instead of defending free speech, she must now oppose it.”
Here is the actual amendment to the S.R.’s mandate (it’s important to mention that none of the original duties have been altered or removed; this is merely an expansion of the job description):
Perhaps one might be justified in describing this as mission creep. But it in no way reverses the mandate so that the S.R. is now seeking out abuses of free expression “instead of” protecting it. The tasks of “investigating governments that forcibly take the fundamental human right to free speech from their citizens with violence” remains. And note that the abuses in question are strictly delineated. There is no mention of “defamation of religions or prophets.” Those words don’t appear in the resolution. The only abuses included in the mandate are those which constitute “ethnic or religious discrimination.”
It’s arguable, perhaps, that this creates an exploitable loophole for theocrats. (If so this loophole is not ex cathedra, but consistent with existing UN convenants, as cited). But to cast it as Hari does as a repudiation of the S.R.’s original mandate is laughable. It doesn’t help the cause of free speech, or secular liberalism, to hail an opinion journalist who seems to have serious trouble restraining his sense of rhetorical hyperbole, as does Mr Hari.
Apologies–I meant to include links.
The resolution which expands the mandate of the Special Rapporteur for Freedom of Expression is here
And the resolution opposing defamation of religion is here.
No I wasn’t saying it established what Johann said it does, I was replying to Reg Delmot.
However I think your claim about the mission of the Special Rapporteur is wrong; critics of the move do hold that making it the job of the SR on Free Expression to seek out putative abuses does indeed turn that job inside out and that it should be done by the SR on Freedom of Religion instead, if it should be done by anyone.
As I understand it, it’s actually the Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression who has now been tasked with reporting on “abuses” of freedom of expression in the form of “defamation of religion”. If that’s still not quite right, I’d like to be corrected (with a proper source to put the issue beyond doubt), but in any event a small error like this in no way vitiates Johann’s argument.
I totally support Johann on this one, and I’m becoming increasingly pessimistic about whether we’ll be able to hang on to our Enlightenment legacy of free speech, when it’s devalued from so many sides, including by many well-meaning people who imagine themselves to be liberals.
This is surely a time to say, “Enough is enough!” and stop making further concessions when it comes to our most fundamental liberties. Let this incident provide a rallying point.
Yes, I am a real person and I know that those who refuse to repent of their unbelief and refuse to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour WILL end up in Hellfire when they die.
Bob: I’m pretty sure that you’re a real person, and are sincere, though trolling of websites has been known. But you say “I know that those who refuse to repent of their unbelief and refuse to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour WILL end up in Hellfire when they die.”
How do you know that? My guess: you know because it says so in the Bible. Please correct me if I am wrong there. That means that every sentence of the Bible is literally true in your view. (BTW from recollection, it also says somewhere in the Bible that the Bible itself is true.)
Have I got this right in your case?
Ian, there is nowhere in the bible where the bible says, self-referentially, that it is true. There is a verse in 2 Timothy which reads: “All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.” (2 Tim 3.16) (This is where, by the way, fundamentalists get the idea that scripture is ‘God-breathed’.) Jesus sometimes claims to speak the truth, and rails against “the Jews” because they do not believe him, a move common in the Qu’ran, which constantly reminds its readers that it is the truth from Allah and those who do not accept it well go to hell (much more vividly described in the Qu’ran). Muslims know that Bob is going to hell because he doesn’t believe that the Qu’ran is true and that Mohammed is the final prophet of Allah, and in the Qu’ran, Jesus is a prophet of Allah, his words sadly corrupted by Christians, when the truth is that he was really a forerunner of Mohammed, and spoke, at the time, in favour of submission (Islam).
But the bible itself never speaks of itself as true. Presumably 2 Timothy was not a part of scripture when it was written, so it could not include itself within the scope of its claim. Nor does it say what scriptures are included, and he may be referring to non-Christian and even non-Jewish works, for all we know. Perhaps he proleptically included the Qu’ran!
Bob is off to hell anyway (within a finite amount of time), because (i) he thinks that knowing and accepting the truth is indispensible to staying out of hell, and (ii) he has no idea what the truth really is.
Bob said “I would urge you to obtain the booklet “Evidence for the resurrection” by Sir Norman Anderson or “Who moved the stone” by Frank Morrison. Mr Morrison originally set out to disprove the resurrection but when he sifted through the evidence he was changed and became a Christian.”
Bob – I would urge you to read the following –
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/resurrection/
Thanks, Eric.
Of course, if Bob’s off to Hell anyway, and if it’s half as bad as he says it is, then its up to us who are definitely not off to Hell (because there’s no such infernal place) to keep Bob out of it too.
Thanks for the reference to 2 Tim 3.16. Of course, the statement “All scripture is inspired by God… ” would to my view imply infallibility.
Otherwise we would have at least the possibility allowed of self-mocking absurdities like “All scripture is inspired by God, but that by itself does not mean it is true.” If that was ever written by some prophet, my guess is that a later editorial committee would have crossed it out.
At the same time, if all scripture is inspired by God, then God is not very inspiring. Neither is he a God of love, as Christ proclaimed. Try for example Numbers 31, at http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=4&chapter=31&version=31
Bob said, “…I know that those who refuse to repent of their unbelief and refuse to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour WILL end up in Hellfire when they die.”
How do you know that Bob?
It’s hopeless, I’ve already asked Bob how he knows, and of course he won’t say. He might as well be a program repeating formulaic bits of dogma no matter what anyone says. He fails the Turing test.
Russell – yes, that is right – see the quoted passage from Austin Dacey’s article yesterday at 23:38. Austin is the Center for Inquiry’s rep at the UN and he’s joined Roy Brown and David Littman at the UN HRC (and now Anthony Grayling has joined them) so he knows what he’s talking about.
Russell,
You’re half-right; the words “defamation of religion” don’t appear in the resolution. See my links above in comments.
OB,
My apologies if I unduly conflated your and Hari’s view on this.
I don’t pretend to know very much about UN norms and culture, but my question for the resolution’s critics is: on what grounds can they claim it “turns the job inside out”? That is, what sort of pressure, apart from the resolution itself, can be brought to bear on how the S.R. does his job?
The implication I hear is that the real meaning of Resolution 7-36 is something like “stop paying so much attention to protecting freedom of speech, and more to sniffing out ‘abusive’ freedom of speech.” But this isn’t supported by the only documentary evidence we have on the S.R.’s mandate, which says nothing about changing the focus or priority of the S.R.’s duties.
I accept that there is a bloc withing the HRC that wants to protect religion (Islam in particular) from criticism, and even subordinate the declaration of human rights to Sharia law. That is distressing, but we should let our distress cloud the fact that the actual resolution under discussion does not task the SR with these aims.
Where is the textual support for the notion that the amended mandate threatens speech? All I see is a “slippery slope” argument that looks a lot like fearmongering.
Forgive the typos. I meant “should not let our distress,” of course.
Chris
I don’t have time to go into great detail here – but the basic point is just that it is a change of mission. Reporting on violations of freedom of speech is not the same thing as reporting on putative ‘abuses’ of free speech. If it’s an abuse that implies it should be stopped, but the role of the Special Rapp. for free speech is to report on impediments to free speech, not to seek out reasons to impede free speech. This strikes me as self-evident.
How is this not a walk-and-chew-gum argument? We might say that the role of a police officer is to locate and apprehend criminals. At the same time, police officers are tasked with protecting the rights of suspects in the course of their job. Mirandizing them, not torturing them during interrogation, not wiretapping them without a warrant, providing access to a lawyer, etc. Does this suggest we should break this single job into two separate ones, one for law enforcement, one for preventing abuse of law enforcement? (When many of these rights were first introduced into law enforcement, cops complained that this was a “change of mission” too).
I grant that there are other S.Rs more suited to this added function. But I don’t see how you get from there to arguing that reporting on impediments to free speech and reporting on abuses of speech are mutually exclusive.
When you write “‘putative’ abuses” and “not to seek out reasons to impede free speech,” I detect the same kind of reification of freedom of expression that typifies Hari’s writing. Free speech is not an uber-right; it has to jostle with several other important rights in a just society; for example the right to property (copyright infringement), the right to personal safety (the harm principle), the right to social capital (libel law), and even, gasp, the right to (for lack of a better word) dignity (incitement, “fighting words,” pornography and violent imagery).
But all of this gets shunted off with a wink and a nod because we all know that Muslims only impede speech for nefarious, illiberal reasons.
Oh, hell – because the Rapporteur is not the same thing as a cop, that’s why.
I don’t think there is such a thing as a right to ‘dignity’ that cashes out as immunity for one’s beliefs.
There is no wink, no nod; there are thousands upon thousands of words here arguing for this view. And ‘we all’ know no such thing as ‘that Muslims only impede speech for nefarious, illiberal reasons,’ not least because not all Muslims do impede speech, and because many Muslims want no part of this kind of coercive bullshit. Don’t try this ‘you’re just dissing all Muslims’ bullshit around here.
Ophelia,
Perhaps I wasn’t clear. The wink-and-nod business was to try and call attention to a double standard. I have seen thousands upon thousands of words in defense of speech; but I have seen few that put the right to speech in context. (Few but not none. We did inconclusively discuss the problem of hate speech.)
I have not seen an argument from you that shows how the added responsibility impairs the SRs ability to fulfill his primary mandate of monitoring speech infringement. Suitability aside; I consider “they gave this important job to the wrong person” to be a far less grave criticism than “they hobbled this person’s job.” Whether it was intentional or not, you feel that the mandate was sabotaged. But how? How do cops and UN functionaries importantly differ, so that the former can balance conflicting duties that add up to a single goal, and the latter cannot?
Chris, it’s not an added responsibility, it’s a different responsibility, one that is the opposite of the original responsibility. Monitoring violations of free speech is in tension with monitoring ‘abuses’ of free speech – at least, it is when the ‘abuses’ are not genuine abuses, as is the case here.
You said yourself you don’t know much about this; I’ve been tracking it for awhile, and I don’t have time or energy to go through it all from the beginning in a comments thread. You could do some research.
Eric, yes, the current Rapporteur (there’s just one) is given different directions, dating from March 2008, two years after the thing you quote.
Thanks for pointing out that Robert Fox piece, mirax – what a piece of crap it is.
Well, what a pity, then. I thought as much, but this one made so much sense, I couldn’t see how anyone could have simply buried it.
Yes well this stuff is why Austin and Anthony have gotten involved. Philosophers to the rescue! [cue Wm Tell Overture]
There’s another thing in what Chris said that I forgot to address –
“Free speech is not an uber-right; it has to jostle with several other important rights in a just society;”
Yes but, though not an uber-right, it is primus inter pares, and that’s for reasons. It’s the first amendment for reasons. It’s necessary for democracy, freedom, reform, amelioration. If you don’t have free speech you can’t confront power and corruption, you can’t report and prevent abuses of human rights and women’s rights, you can’t resist tyranny and oppression. Mugabe and the Burmese generals don’t lock up their opponents just for the hell of it, they do it to shut them up and stop them threatening their illegitimate power.
The very first thing Obama did after the inauguration was to reverse Bush’s restrictions on presidential records. That’s no accident.
Bob
“if you do not accept Christ you will go to Hell.”
A good friend of mine tells me that as long as you accept Christ was a prophet of Allah, you can still get into heaven on Thursdays. Is this true ?
Progress. This is the subtext I was looking for:
“at least, it is when the ‘abuses’ are not genuine abuses, as is the case here.”
They are genuine according to international law, whatever value you ascribe to that. Resolution 7-36 specifically refers only to acts of racial or religious discrimination as delineated by the International Covenant on Political and Civil Rights.
Text here.
Article 19 (3) states that any restrictions to speech:
Article 20 states that “Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.” (Note that the U.S. issued a signing statement when they ratified, noting that this article couldn’t supervene on First Amendment rights).
That’s it. Not a ton of leeway for interpretation. No new principles or guidelines have been added, dealing with blasphemy or offending people’s feelings.
If you have a secret decoder ring which shows how fine tuning human rights charters consistent with International Law is really a move to undermine those rights, I’m very curious to see it.
Hey Opehlia, did you see Stephen Poole in his comments wrote this:
“What I don’t understand is what purpose, pragmatically, the authors of articles such as Hari’s first one (the one in response to which there were riots and threats of violence, both of which I think are bad things, readers!) think they are going to serve. It seems to me that the monologue goes something like this:
1 (to benighted savage) Hello, benighted savage! In our splendid liberal democracies, we have a thing called “free speech”.
2 What’s that you say? You believe in God? Sheesh, what a fucking idiot. And by the way, your “prophet” was basically a paedophile.
3 No, wait, I’m allowed to say that, because of “free speech”!
4 See how brilliant our liberal democracies are?”
Uch. Thought you might want to blog on it.
I would say there is a lot of leeway for interpretation. I (obviously) would say that, for instance, the Motoons are not ‘advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence’ while other people – whether in good faith or in order to distract attention from genuine violations of rights – would claim that they are. And so on. I would say that Johann Hari’s article is not such advocacy, other people would – whether in good faith or not – say it is.
In my view ‘fine tuning’ human rights charters to broaden the definition of ‘advocacy of religious hatred that constitutes incitement to violence’ until it covers the Motoons and The Satanic Verses and Johann’s article and my book is really a move to undermine those rights.
Oh, gawd. Thanks, Hannah. Yeah, I probably do want to mutter something about it. Sigh.
At this point it is worth pointing out to participants that Edmund Standing
has a good piece ‘On responsible and irresponsible criticism of the Qur’an’ at http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/02/14/on-responsible-and-irresponsible-criticism-of-the-quran/ (Sorry, I don’t know how to insert hyperlinks in the ‘Comment Here’ window.)
“For those of us who are secularists and find our intellectual and moral home in the kind of thinking that began in earnest with the Enlightenment – in rationalism and humanism – we are indebted to many great thinkers of the past who stood up for reason and were heavily critical of religious texts and religious authority. However, today, when it comes to Islam, the loudest voices in favour of criticising Islam are often those of people who hold views in other spheres which are very illiberal, and many self-styled progressive and liberal thinkers seem more concerned with ‘defending Islam’ than critically examining its claims.”
Edmund Standing also has a four part critique of the Qur’an here at B&W (go to the home page).
Well now Ian surely even posting such a thing amounts to advocacy of religious hatred that constitutes incitement to violence and thus is prohibited in international law. Surely.
OB,
Where is the language broadening the definition of “advocacy of religious violence, etc.?”
The amended part of the mandate is very brief. It asks the SR to report “abuses” of expression that constitute discrimination as defined by documents that were ratified by member nations over 30 years ago.
Yes, the “Motoons” can be interpreted either way today (it’s complicated, which is why free speech arguments are adjudicated in court)– but the leeway that permits this variable interpretation was there long before Resolution 7-36.
CS, there’s a context for all this, in particular the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam. That’s where the language broadening the definition is.
OB: Yes, what I did was probably a violation of international law. But hell, that law is so weak and limply applied, I reckon I can get away with it. Even if they come after me, it will probably take at least 30 years, by which time I will have changed my address.
In the mean time, I have decided to start a new religion. Whereas Judaism, Christianity and Islam are (basically) monotheistic, mine is the opposite. I am an extreme polytheist, preaching here on behalf of an infinite number of infinitesimally small nanogods, each with only a tiny bit of power, and very limited knowledge. But they’re all very friendly, in a simple sort of way.
It’s a great religion.
I don’t think it violates any international law, does it?
Ian, of course it does: it’s an implicit insult to all the opposite religions. Tut – what were you thinking?!