The epithet question
I’m curious about something. To the best of my knowledge, a sexist epithet is a sexist epithet. There’s not generally a lot of ambiguity about it, although there’s always room for ironic uses in private conversation and so on. In public discourse, a sexist epithet is what it is. Yet – I keep encountering people who dispute that, in places where I wouldn’t expect to, such as comments on Jesus and Mo. So I’m curious about what other people think.
A commenter said ‘the god of Islam is such a pussy. He is unable to do a thing to protect himself or his reputation and must rely on his minions to do his dirty work.’ I took exception, and someone replied by quoting one of Julian’s Bad Moves from here, on the fact that many words have multiple meanings. True enough, but is there more than one way to understand ‘pussy’ in that comment? Not that I know of.
What’s interesting is that I think that’s pretty widely understood, even by people who pretend or believe otherwise. One reason I think that is that I don’t know anyone who uses the word that way in conversation or correspondence with me. I don’t think that’s an accident; I think it’s because no one who knows me thinks it would be welcome – and for all I know this includes people who do use the word in conversation with other people. The point is that if people avoid the word with (at least) certain audiences, then the meaning is probably pretty clear. Am I wrong?
Certain epithets just are not really ambiguous; they can’t be. ‘Nigger’ is the best known in the US and maybe elsewhere; kike, raghead, kaffir are a few more. Queer and dyke have been reclaimed, and there is a school of thought that ‘bitch’ has but I think on the contrary, ‘bitch’ is more viciously misogynist than ever. And so are, as far as I know, pussy, twat and cunt. It is my considered opinion that no one who comments on Jesus and Mo would have the gall to call the barmaid any of those things, and that if I’m right about that, they should stop using them at all.
I tend to agree with your point for the most part, but I disagree with many of your example of “certain epithets [that] are not really ambiguous.” “Nigger” is a word I would never use myself (well, I guess in a sense I did just use it, but I think you know what I mean…) but I would not say that it is unambiguous; in some subcultures it is a term of endearment and respect being used in an ironic way. The same is true for quite a few of the terms you indicated (admittedly you noted this for some of them).
I have never encountered “pussy” used in quite that fashion, but the general point is the same – for better or worse, that and other words do have multiple meanings. I don’t think that automatically excuses their use, but I do think that perhaps it is a judgment call and one on which reasonable people can and will disagree.
In a similar way, I cringe when people use the word “retarded” in an ironic fashion to mean something other than mentally retarded. I was taught never to do it, and yet a surprising number of people (surprising to me, anyway) do this.
OB, FWIW, do you think you would have thought to bring up the same issue if the commenter had stated that god is a dick, or a cock? It should sound and feel the same, shouldn’t it? But it doesn’t, somehow, I don’t think.
You’ve raised an interesting topic – I’m curious to see what direction this discussion might go in.
-CM
For what it’s worth, no, I don’t think “pussy” refers to a body part in this context: in English English it is, or used to be, a perfectly straightforward usage, like “wimp”. Countless parents will have chided their children who, for instance, are afraid to take the plunge into the cold water…”oh don’t be such a pussy”. Of course in the US it has different, and cruder, connotations.
Hey, maybe I have lived a sheltered life, but I always thought it referred to a house cat until I was told differently by my wife. Since then, and that was some years ago, I have dropped it. But I can understand someone using it in that way. I don’t think that’s the way the commenter on Jesus and Mo was using it, however, so I think anyone who disagrees with you, especially Turandot, cannot use equivocation as an excuse.
Tricky example, as the author points out. ‘Pussy’ for an unmanly man and referring to the domestic pet goes back at least to the 16th century, while the crude sexual connotation is late nineteenth.
And we have expressions such as ‘He acts mean, but he’s really just a pussy-cat’. Or ‘pussy-footing’ meaning timid and clearly referencing a cat’s delicate gait.
In general it’s probably true that the older use of the word – a man so weak he is content to be a domestic pet – has been ousted by the newer, offensive usage.
Perhaps we need a new word for the first meaning, a domestic pet noted for being pampered and lacking in masculine attributes. Shitzu? No way to vulgarize that, surely?
But I agree that the use of slang terms for the female anatomy as abusive is odd. Maybe it represents an underlying fear of the reality those terms represent.
I’ve usually heard “pussy” as an insult similar to but a bit more derisive than “wuss”. I haven’t checked the etymology of “wuss”, maybe I ought to. I’ve heard the other use as well, but usually more or less as a synonym for sex, not directly as an insult. Call this the sheltered west-coast US viewpoint, I guess.
The “n-word” as most of us have to call “nigger” in the US has also been reclaimed, by which I mean blacks sometimes use it to refer to themselves.
Here in the US I hear “pussy” used all the time in popular usage in the sense of “a weakling, a coward, a sissy”, and I don’t believe it’s meant to be any more “viciously misogynist” than “bitch”.
By the way, to me “bitch” means simply a spiteful woman, while “prick” is a more vulgar expression for a spiteful man.
While “pussy” doesn’t seem “viciously misogynist” to me, it does seem somewhat vulgar.
But then we have people like Jane Fonda use the word “cunt” in public discourse. I wonder if that’s really necessary, even as an effort to reclaim the word, anatomically, at least.
By the way, I also cringe to hear “sucks” used all the time in the sense of “contemptible or disgusting” as I believe it refers to fellatio.
For my own part, I don’t use “pussy”, but then I’m also probably what you would consider overly polite to religious believers.
Flabbergasted! – finding it hard to believe any of this. Ophelia, on this one very rare occasion you’ve managed to grab the wrong end of the stick firmly in both hands. Whatever else it may mean, it also means fraidycat.
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If you are to exclude all sexual epithets then you wouldn’t be left with much colourful language with which to express yourself. I choose to vary between male and female epithets, attempting to strike a fair and even balance in my tourette-like rants.
I’m not exactly up to date about current English slang, but the use of the word “pussy” seems offensive to me, as does “cunt” or “cocksucker”, as insults. Since blacks hit back, no one uses the “n” word to refer to them. I would wager that if women hit back like Mike Tyson would if he heard the “n” word uttered by a white, people would stop using the word “pussy” to refer to a coward, there being no evidence that women are more or less cowardly than men are. There’s an old racist joke which makes the same point very clearly. Question: what do you call a “n-word” with a shot-gun? Answer: sir.
“…people would stop using the word “pussy” to refer to a coward, there being no evidence that women are more or less cowardly than men are.” !!!!!
STOP! I’m going giddy with headspin! Women have absolutely nothing to do with it! The two uses are totally unrelated!
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Adam – no they’re not. In the US ‘pussy’ absolutely does mean the same thing as twat and cunt.
Wait a minute – you all had me convinced for a minute that it doesn’t have even a ghost of that meaning in the UK – but then I remembered Ian Fleming and Pussy Galore. How could that joke work if the reference is completely unknown in the UK?!
If you don’t believe me about the US, just try using it over here, you’ll find out.
CM – no, I know, dick doesn’t seem the same, but on the other hand I’ve mostly stopped using it since this stuff started getting on my nerves. It seems only fair.
We’re busted, guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jtziMfnWME
Ophelia – it has both meanings on both sides of the Atlantic, but the two meanings do not relate in any way whatever. Women have absolutely nothing to do with it ( = the way it was used in the Jesus & Mo comment).
Two meanings – where did I claim otherwise? The two uses are totally unrelated.
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Adam – you’re being a tad too dogmatic. That may be true in the UK (but it doesn’t sound as if it is, since some UK types think it isn’t), but it isn’t true here. Calling a man a pussy for the reasons enumerated in that comment is not entirely unrelated to women.
It’s interesting, that anyone could think the two usages could be completely separate. That seems ridiculous on the face of it. You have a word with two meanings: female genitalia, and cowardly weakling. Obviously the two are made to be conflated, whether accidentally or on purpose, so it’s just surreal to clutch one’s hair and shout that there is no connection. How could there not be a connection? Once you know the word does refer to the female genitalia, that game is lost.
“Sissy” explicitly means “a boy who acts like a girl”, ie. is wet, weak and cowardly. I think “sissy” and “pussy” are fairly interchangeable. It seems like it’s much more of an insult for a man to be ascribed stereotypical feminine qualities than the other way around, which might have something to do with why words like “prick” and “dick” sound much less offensive than “cunt” and “slut”.
“…is there more than one way to understand ‘pussy’ in that comment? Not that I know of.” Agreed, and I understood it to be using a perfectly acceptable non-derogatory non-sexist expression related to the likes of fraidy-cat and pussyfooting – and that this was plainly intended. BTW, Amos, I’ve always assumed the pussy=cunt link was to do with hair/fur.
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OB, scuse me chiming in on a delicate subject where I might get my ears cropped. I think you are right, but its about social context. The usage of female genitalia as terms of abuse is a males-only outdoors language. It has a strong ‘honor-culture’ component and it is not about femininity but relative standing among males.
‘Modern’ values make all people more equal, and male vs mixed contexts are taught as as not different. Young people not taught to discriminate the past contexts so carefully, not taught to switch from the masculine to the inclusive context as clearly as previous generations were. In our grandfathers’ time we would be knocked down for using words like that where a female could hear, by the same person that you learned the word from outdoors.
So rejoice! Its a sign of the successful transition, and women are now free to be anything, anywhere. The fact that an aspect of ‘everywhere’ has come into your professional space as a result is hardly astonishing.
There is a good example of contrary usage in the current movie ‘In Bruges’, amos.
a) yes it is offensive
b) it is rhyming slang
c) it is best avoided unless quoting Edward Lear
“The Owl looked up to the stars above,
And sang to a small guitar…”
There’s yet another meaning for pussy/pussycat, easygoing and agreeable – does the vagina/woman meaning make that one sexist too?
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“but then I remembered Ian Fleming and Pussy Galore. How could that joke work if the reference is completely unknown in the UK?!”
It was an in-joke, OB, not meant to be understood by any but the most worldly or it would never have got past the censor. The fact he used it is a pretty good indicator that it did not generally have any obscene content. Most would have thought (as I did for years) that it meant ‘cat like’ in a sexy way, ‘kittenish’, something like that. I think ‘pussy’ has taken on the US meaning in the UK more recently, but it didn’t have it when I was a child. This meaning has become more familiar from movies. A friend of mine who moved to Atlanta in the 80s likes to recount how his school career took off when a couple of bullies had a go at him early on by cornering him and demanding to know if he was a ‘pussy’. He found it so funny to hear a word like that (meaning, to him, ‘pussy cat’) in a threatening situation that he just burst out laughing, thoroughly disconcerting his opponents and getting himself an unearned reputation for sang froid.
Cunt and twat certainly do mean ‘vagina’ but their use as an insult isn’t sexist in the UK (we disagreed about this once before). Boys and girls use them freely and interchangeably for both sexes, and will, as often, use ‘dick’, ‘nob’, ‘bellend’, ‘tool’, etc in exactly the same way and with the same weight and meaning. ‘Bitch’ is a different thing, it (nearly always) refers derogatorily to a certain kind of woman and is sexist, it seems to me.
In spain ‘cunt’ is a fairly mild swear word used by all and sundry the way we might say ‘damn’. It is strange at first to overhear old ladies saying to each other in public places things like ‘Oh cunt! I have forgotten my purse’ and similar. I guess context is all.
“Cunt and twat certainly do mean ‘vagina’ but their use as an insult isn’t sexist in the UK (we disagreed about this once before).”
They aren’t used only against women in the way that “bitch” is, but their derivation and status in the hierarchy of insults (as it were) is sexist. Name a word with a masculine derivation that has the same strength.
A female blogger recently told me that “twat” has become separated from its original meaning and is now a free-floating insult.
I use “cretin” without any worries about its derivation.
But “pussy” hasn’t yet reached that stage, I think, and I’m still not convinced about “twat” either.
“They aren’t used only against women in the way that “bitch” is, but their derivation and status in the hierarchy of insults (as it were) is sexist. Name a word with a masculine derivation that has the same strength.2
Well, I suppose ‘cunt’ is stronger than other obscenities, but that doesn’t mean much in itself, does it? It was once very common to greet someone as ‘you old cunt’ in a very friendly way and casual, although only in bohemeian circles, I suppose. ‘Twat’ is pretty mild, about the same as ‘dickhead’ or ‘prat’ or ‘wanker’. It seems to me that the strength and use of these words is pretty random, non-sexist and fluid.
“They aren’t used only against women in the way that “bitch” is”
Actually, thinking about it, it is much less likely that ‘cunt’ will be used against women in the UK (I have a feeling this is different in the us too). ‘Cunt’ is close to a man-only insult (but is this changing?), and it does not mean effeminate or cowardly. ‘Twat’ is universal’ but, again, more likely to be used against a man, I think. I don’t think you can call a woman a ‘wanker’, can you (it sounds silly to me somehow). Most of the male genitalia derivations (dick, nob, tool, bellend etc) are reserved for the boys. In fact, we have far fewer insults that are usuable against women, but that may reflect only the fact that swearing and insult exchanging tended in the past to be more or less a male preserve rather than a cultural respect for women. Funny how deeply we know (or think we know) these things without realising on a conscious level.
The force of paki, retard, gay, pussy as pejoratives come from shared group assumptions. At school, at 11 or 12, my friends and I asked each other: would you rather be dead or a Paki, a gay, a retard. The correct response was dead. Pussy draws a sting from a belief in women’s cowardice and feebleness, and is part of a set of attitudes which causes men in offices to flap their arms when all of the women vanish, because women are constantly in a flap, or to murmur ‘time of the month’ to another man after receiving a bollocking from a woman.
“and is part of a set of attitudes which causes men in offices to flap their arms when all of the women vanish, because women are constantly in a flap, or to murmur ‘time of the month’ to another man after receiving a bollocking from a woman.”
Genuine question Matt, but have you ever actually seen this kind of behaviour? I ask beccause I haven’t, although I can well believe it happens. And I have had a lot of women bosses. But then I have worked in a woman heavy business so my experience may not be typical. I don’t think you could call someone ‘pussy’ in the UK without irony. It would sound like an affectation of Americaness, like you were pretending to be Bruce Willis. But it may not be the same with the yoof.
Ophelia, you do realise you’ve opened a can of worms here, don’t you? Did you see what happened when PZ Myers had a thread on an important subject that got onto a similar issue? It went berserk.
For what it’s worth, it’s not part of my language or that of the people around me to use “pussy” as a synonym for “wimp” or “extreme and contemptible wimp”. It refers, um, compendiously to the female sex organs (NOT just the vagina – e.g. “Lick my pussy” does not mean “Lick my vagina”), or more commonly, to the female pubic triangle (sometimes also known jokingly as “the map of Tasmania”) … or else it’s a member of the much-loved species Felis catus. It’s very seldom used to mean a weak or effeminate person, except by someone who’s watched too many American movies. Words such as the home-grown “sook”, the somewhat-American-sounding “wuss”, and the ever-popular (and especially nasty) “pansy” and “fairy” play that role, with various different connotations and degrees of offensiveness.
“Pussycat” means either the above mentioned Felis catus or someone who is gentle/kind/sweet natured – usually someone whom you wouldn’t expect to be so, as in, “I met Mike Tyson the other day, and he turned out to be a real pussycat!” It can apply to either sex.
“Twat” sounds to our ears like a comic Britishism, like “sod”, and not especially offensive.
The words “bitch” and “prick” mean, respectively, “an arrogant or inconsiderate female person” and “an arrogant or inconsiderate male person”. Both men and women use these terms freely, and any sexism is fairly residual (lying more in the perceived need to have different words for the sexes, rather than in anything about the original meanings of the words themselves). “Bastard” can be used as a synonym for the aforementioned “prick”, but can also be used either as a term of endearment, usually plural (“I love you bastards!”), or even as a term indicating sympathy for someone who needs it: “Look what those pricks did to that poor bastard!” It would never be applied to someone female, though.
The very vicious usage of “bitch” that you refer to is considered an American thing; it’s quite an alien usage to us and would only ever be employed by an Australian of my age and social circle as a joke (i.e., making fun of rap musicians, or whatever).
On the other hand, “cunt” is used (other than to refer to the female sexual organs or pubes) to express extreme hatred, contempt, rejection, or anger, and it’s considered by middleclass people like me to be outrageously misogynist. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it applied to a woman here, but always to a hated, etc., man … but I realise it can be used differently in the UK, and perhaps it is here outside my circle. Very rarely it can be used like one of the variations of “bastard” above: “Hey, you cunts are all right.” But it would still cause a lot of us to wince.
No one in Australia would ever say “nigger” these days (not because we’re not racist but because it sounds American), but we have equivalent terms for Aborigines that are just as offensive (no need to mention what they are).
I’m just reporting – neither justifying nor criticising – any of these usages, except where I say so. Make use of this window on Australian vulgar slang as you will, and (again) there are variations depending on region, social class, age, and so on, so what I’m reporting may be just one form of Australian English.
“The words “bitch” and “prick” mean, respectively, “an arrogant or inconsiderate female person” and “an arrogant or inconsiderate male person”. “
I think that is generally right, although ‘bitch’ is increasingly used to refer to men as well (in the UK) if they are inclined to be waspishly rude about other people. We would never use it as general term for women, though, except in parody. I think someone who talked abpout ‘bitches’ to mean women in general would sound a bit mad, even if he were a rap singer. It is really slippery this stuff. Russell is right that use varies massively even among local populations. The Scots use ‘cunt’ much more freely than the English, for example. Interesting that ‘bastard’ can’t be applied to women, only men and (other) objects, I hadn’t noticed that but it is true.
Yes, both happened. The flapping occurred at an evenly-split office, with a female boss. I have heard people be called ‘pussies’ without irony, but not often.
“The flapping occurred at an evenly-split office, with a female boss. “
Was she a flapper, though? ‘Flap’ seems originally to be WW2 slang, by the way. RAF, I think.
John,
Ah, I’m relieved to hear it about the Pussy Galore joke – I too thought for years it was just a nickname, and then felt foolish when the real meaning dawned on me.
But I think it’s claiming too much to say that cunt and twat aren’t sexist in the UK. I don’t think such words can be divorced from their meanings and origins that thoroughly.
Russell, oh yes, I know it’s a can of worms all right, that’s why it has a thread to itself, rather than derailing one on another subject.
Oh and also, Russell’s right, it doesn’t mean vagina, it means the genitalia. (But that’s confused too; at least in the US, people more and more seem to think vagina does mean the genitalia – which makes me tired: it’s Latin for sheath, for chrissake.)
Great; David Thompson’s gotten in on the act, so now we’ll get a replay of the ‘she’s on the rag’ ‘she just needs a good fuck’ ‘what a stupid bitch’ commentary of last year. All of it in aid of the claim that it’s idiotic to worry about sexist language. O the ironies.
Excuse me; I have to go throw up now.
Well, indeed words cannot be divorced from their actual meanings, but I don’t think anyone’s claiming they can. When you say that they cannot (thoroughly) be separated from their origins, however, you look to be getting perilously close to falling foul of the semantic etymological fallacy.
It seems weird, but despite all of the talk about tone last month I admit I am nearly tone deaf when it comes to misogyny. It’s one of those things that I consciously reject out of hand, but have never thought too deeply about. I suppose that the map of my mental landscape has frayed velvet ropes around this subject with a small sign reading “here be dragons!”
Of course I am aware that there are real problems, and not being an ass myself isn’t always enough. All that is necessary for evil to triumph…, and so on. But life is long, and there is just soooo much that I don’t know. I’m working on it.
So this is one of those areas of life where I know what I don’t know. Often when a discussion takes one of these turns I am initially surprised. After a little reflection I can usually spot the veiled references that I missed at first. It is the people who can’t see the problem even when it is pointed out to them that not only don’t know, they don’t know that there is anything to be known. I wonder what the map of their mental landscape looks like?
Nicely said, GD.
I’m getting a little tired of the ones who don’t know they don’t know and that there is anything to be known.
The latest comment at David Thompson’s is
“Why do we give a shit that some cunt-flapper is offended?”
This of course demonstrates that there is nothing sexist about any of this.
Ha!
Exactly. I tried to explain this to David Thompson earlier today (to absolutely no avail). People get that you can’t say ‘nigger’ but the sexist equivalent is just fine. It’s bizarre.
(The attempt at explanation was before that last comment was posted. I’m not about to have any dealings with someone who leaves a comment like that in place. I’ve had it with David Thompson.)
Back when Obama faced Hillary in the primaries, Jean K. had a post where she affirmed that she backed Hillary because sexism was a deeper problem in our societies than racism. At the time I took that comment as the argument of Hillary supporter. I myself move in such restricted social circles, where for a male, even without the presence of women, to utter a sexist comment would be frowned upon and where males are expected to share childcare, etc. However, maybe my limited life experience is not indicative of what occurs in the real world, and I’m not talking about Afghanistan, but about developed or almost developed nations. Maybe Jean is right.
Well it certainly does seem to be the case that people will just shamelessly barf out sexist garbage when they would be either afraid or ashamed to barf out racist garbage. I’m a bit sheltered too, and that kind of stuff always surprises me. The fact that David Thompson not only tolerates it but encourages it simply amazes me.
[…] bitches Aug 3rd, 2011 | By Ophelia Benson Category: Notes and Comment Blog Sexist epithets. The subject keeps coming back. We think we’ve killed it and then it pops up again, undead. The […]
[…] wrote a whole post about the word “pussy” back in 2009 – a couple of years before it became routine for people to call me a cunt along with every […]