In which piece did I use the word ‘retribution’ to describe justice?
You write:
‘I would like to see you and the rest of B&W make more of an effort to distance themsleves, as liberal critics of Islam, from racist critics of innocent Muslim immigrants’.
I’ve done this many times, so I don’t believe you’ve actually read my work. For example, from pieces of mine on the BNP’s claims that groups like al-Muhajiroun are mainstream:
‘The majority of Muslims in the UK have no interest in Choudary and his bizarre vanity organisations. The majority of Muslims in the UK are what Tarek Fatah refers to as “nine-to-five Muslims” who “are mostly concerned with making a living and getting ahead”‘.
‘If the majority of Muslims in Britain really subscribe to views like these then why do the media have to rely so heavily on this one man and his groups for their scare stories about Muslims? The simple answer is that the majority of Muslims in Britain don’t really subscribe to views like these … When the BNP talks about “Muslims” abusing British troops in its election material it makes it sound as though Choudary and the “Followers of Ahl us-Sunah wal-Jamaa’ah” nutters he leads are representative of British Muslims as a whole, and this is a deliberate and devious lie’.
On the other stuff, here’s the deal: I do not accept that those who explicitly seek to destroy liberal democratic society should be treated under the normal rules of liberal democratic societies. To do so is suicidal. Treating a Jihadist who seeks to destroy the West as ‘rational’ or someone with equal ‘rights’ to those he would destroy is idiocy. We are at war with a theocratic ideology, and in war things change, and have to change. Liberalism cannot defend itself otherwise. For example, to save the West from Nazism we killed large numbers of people; that’s unfortunate, but was necessary.
Tony Blair said that we must ‘balance between the rights of the individual and the rights of the community to basic security.’ That is a sane and rational position.
And, by the way, your claim that ‘some of your views make you sound like a veritable BNP thug’ illustrates that you really don’t understand BNP ideology or BNP thuggery, which is based on racial hatred and violence against people solely on the basis of the colour of their skin, none of which has anything to do with positions. Read my report on the BNP if you want to know what they actually believe and you’ll see they and I are worlds apart:
Incidentally, there is no me ‘and the rest of B&W’ for, as far as I’m aware, there is no B&W ‘party line’. I contribute to B&W, but have no say in who gets published or the direction of the site, as that’s down to Ophelia. Ophelia and I agree on a fair amount, and you and I would probably agree on a fair amount, but I wouldn’t say I’m in lockstep with her or any other contributors. For example, Ophelia, like you, signed the Third Camp statement, which is something I certainly wouldn’t do. But then Ophelia certainly wouldn’t endorse my views on the war on terror. A broad church and all that…
Paula Bourges-Waldegg in her defence of evolutionists suggests, “The best way to avoid discrimination is precisely by learning to discriminate between facts and fiction”. What she appears not to have noticed is that evolutionists frequently fail to make such a distinction by using the “evolution of the gaps” approach to the theory of natural selection. In other words if all else fails attribute change to evolution – it fills in any gaps and it avoids having to provide empirical evidence.
In addition, her characterisation of religious people is naive. Referring to to idea that Allah “guided” the planes on 9/11 she fails to understand that 9/11 was a political act dressed in religious clothing, not a religious act carried out for political purposes.
To confirm what Edmund says, there is no B&W party line as such – there’s just what I do or don’t like. I don’t always agree with every word of every article, but that’s just normal for any publication. Who on earth would want to read nothing but that which I agreed with down to the last word?!
In The Retreat of Reason, you write “The purpose of all law and order policies is to provide justice (otherwise known as retribution), deterrence and rehabilitation.”– this was the quote to which I was referring. I suspect we would disagree considerably about issues of criminal justice, but that is not the main issue here. A few other points: I understand that B&W represents a diversity of viewpoints, yet it is essentially devoted to liberal, rationalist critiques of illiberal foggy-mindedness and religiosity: I just want to make sure that this doesn’t bleed into any more nefarious doctrines, which it generally does not, and I thank the whole B&W team for that. I also understand that you’ve criticized the BNP for being ideologically racist rather than legitimately critical of Islam. For this I applaud you. However, I believe that your support for racial profiling suggests that you do not mind compromising in a basic way the rights of innocent Muslim minorities.
Liberalism is not a dogmatic belief system which requires that people accept its tenets in order to enjoy its benefits. Obviously, one would wish that everyone supported liberal democracy, yet they do not. The essence of liberalism is its tolerance for the right of everyone to speak her mind and to enjoy life and basic freedom, including freedom from torture.
I’m not the author of ‘The Retreat of Reason’ and I wasn’t endorsing it entirely, but pointing you to the section on racial profiling, which I agree with.
Hence the fact I wrote ‘My position is the same as the one found in the book “The Retreat of Reason”‘. –And that was when I was explicitly talking about the ‘racial profiling’ question. The argument put forward by Anthony Browne (the author) on *this issue* is one I agree with. In the wider perspective, I’d endorse much, but not *all*, of ‘The Retreat of Reason’.
I’ve rarely found any sentiment quite so corrosive, wrong-headed and deeply offensive to my most deeply held ideals as the myth of the holy fool, though before I read Joshua Leach’s short essay I’d never heard the term. Bravo! (I especially liked the analysis of the grotesque “The Death of Ivan Illyich,” which I was once forced to read and lead a discussion section on by some awful hack of an ultra-Christian pseudo-philosopher in graduate school. *blech*)
Reading this essay, I found myself reminded of that beautiful but insidious old Quaker spiritual:
‘Tis the gift to be simple,
’tis the gift to be free,
’tis the gift to come down where you ought to be,
And when we find ourselves in the place just right,
It will be in the valley of love and delight.
Refrain:
When true simplicity is gained,
To bow and to bend we shan’t be ashamed.
To turn, turn will be our delight,
‘Til by turning, turning we come round right
No, actually, it isn’t a gift. It’s a curse, or at best a very mixed and circumstance-dependent blessing. There may be some virtue in learning to be content with what you have, and certainly modern consumerist culture could do with an infusion of simplicity, or perhaps Buddhist detachment from mere stuff. But there is no virtue in quiet acceptance of perpetual injustice, subordination, and oppression – the usual reasons most people have so very little, with which they must perforce find what contentment they can. There is nothing wrong with lauding those among the poor and oppressed who – from inner strength or lack of alternatives or ignorance or sheer exhaustion – have come to accept their lot in life with some grace, perhaps even genuine joy. But there is something perverse about admiring their “simple” strength while ignoring the ugly circumstances and causes they are rising above, the very thing that make their capacity for happiness so admirable: A young person may show admirable courage, strength, resolve, and even joi de vivre in the face of terminal cancer, but that doesn’t make cancer a fine thing and nothing to concern ourselves about!
The myth that people living with boots on their necks are perfectly happy that way and wouldn’t know what to do if the boots were lifted has always been a favorite of those wearing the boots: It’s especially appropriate to name that myth the “Holy Fool,” because religion has long been a powerful tool for not only fostering the myth, but for giving it as much truth as possible. That is, the boot wearers have much to gain by the masses being brainwashed into accepting or even happily embracing the boots on their necks, such as by convincing them that they really *deserve* the boots on their necks (original sin), or that the boots are just temporary and unimportant compared to bootless eternity (heaven), or that the boot-wearers are just doing God’s will (divine right of kings, various kinds of outright theocracy, etc.). It’s all very ugly when you look at it without the carefully constructed filters of sentiment used by those who sing the praises of the Holy Fool.
Great article. The Holy Fool is a trope thats keeps on giving; Forrest Gump comes to mind (although Tarantino reckoned that the movie was actually cleverly subversive, in that it showed a retarded conformist prospering while an intelligent rebel just gets herself crushed).
A small quibble with G Felis: “A Simple Gift” is a Shaker hymn, not a Quaker one. Traditionally, Quakers did not engage in group singing or include music in their services.
In reference to Jahanshah Rashidian’s article ‘Rape in the Mullahs’ Prisons’:
Using the classic phrase for avoidance of authorial responsibility ‘it is believed that’, Rashidian makes the following astonishing claim:
‘It is believed that religious permission of rape, including male-rape, of ‘opponents of the Islamic regime’ has been recently given by Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi, the monitor and spiritual guru of president Ahmadinejad. Islamic authorities usually deny that rape is being committed in their prisons, fearing strong reaction from the public, both inside and outside…
In an interview at the Jamkaran gathering after the revelation of rape in the Mullah’s prisons, Mesbah Yazdi was asked: “Can an interrogator rape the prisoner in order to obtain a confession?” He answered: “The necessary precaution is for the interrogator to perform a ritual washing first and say prayers while raping the prisoner. If the prisoner is female, it is permissible to rape through the vagina or anus. It is better not to have a witness present. If it is a male prisoner, then it’s acceptable for someone else to watch while the rape is committed.”’
The truth will out,I remember there were a few girls in goldenbridge who were born extreamly bright, had they been given the chance could have been high achievers in the outside world one we called new’s who by some miracle seemed to know what was going on not only in goldenbridge but in the outside world,her intelligence showed through no matter what they did to her,two others equally as intelligent and this person put their minds and ideas together Marie, Pauline Lizzy,as none of us could take any more of the beatings neglect,cruelty ,the pain of having to watch flogings by nuns and staff often until we children passed out to be dragged to the dormitory ,or locked in the cupboard on the back stairs in pain,one of these girls called Pauline said her uncle gussi was the irish army boxing champion he would come and rescue us all with the army so the three girls wrote a letter out to the uncle telling him about the horrors we were all suffering every day so marie and pauline wrote the letter and gave it to the postman ,but the next thing the head nun,the other horrible cruel nun and staff lined us all in the rec demanding to know who wrote the letter as the postman had given it back to sister (nun)x she was red in the face with rage foaming at the mouth bashing us with her stick screaming into our faces yelling whoever wrote that letter will wish they were never born,(which we all wished anyway)the two girls white as sheets they were called Marie and Pauline were draged out by the hair and the beating they suffered,especially the one called pauline she was made to stand in only her knickers having had been dragged into the rec by the hair arms ,legs,the head nun and sister F pounded into the child with fists sticks belt,pauling was laid out cold on the floor we all thought she was dead blood came from her mouth you could see the welts on her small body marie was having some sort of fit,they just dragged them up the backstairs and threw them on the bed,No doctor was called ,no visitors allowed ,she had a sister at goldenbridge who was made to watch this she was also beaten for crying i believe the sister ended up in hospital.we were all to frightened to breath out loud .the only available water for us to drink was from the toilet with mouths dry with fear there was a rush to the toilet.Marie O’Laughlin you are a good person to let the world know the truth.
“I remember there were a few girls in Goldenbridge who were born extremely bright, had they been given the chance could have been high achievers in the outside world”
Were not the names you mention given the opportunity by the Sisters of Mercy to go to the outside national/secondary school, during the same time as Christine (Chrissie West) Buckley? From what I gather some other children bowed out due to school pressures. I learned from CB that M.C. and P.J. were exceptional (outside school) scholars.
Do you have any recollection of Sr. M.B. from whom Sr. X alleged learned her skills? I believe she was even worse than the latter.
Yeah, a lot of children used to hide in the cupboard when they did not want to go to evening-times benediction in the chapel. I recall being locked (for an inordinate amount of time) in the shoe-room on the landing, when I was very small. I also remember staff threatening to throw children out of the two storeyed high Sacred Heart window if they were tumbling about in play.
“None of us could take any more of the beatings neglect, cruelty, the pain of having to watch floggings by nuns and staff”
Do you ever remember children (who either wet their beds or whatever else) having to line up in St Patrick’s – the queue even sometimes extended into St. Philomena’s and beyond into the washroom. Sr. X relished so much flogging and lashing the living ‘bejasus’ daylight out of them. It seemed to me that this ‘fix” was so desperately needed by her in order to get through her day. Yeah, children were absolutely worn out with the beatings and there was nobody around to rescue them as the other staff who stood by were too much in awe of her. Some victims/survivors who went to the commission to inquire into institutional abuse to tell their stories to Judge Ryan were still controlled by Sr. X. as when they were asked by Sr. Helena O’ Donoghue if they wished to see Sr. X. they did not refuse and even gave the latter a big hug. Nonetheless, it is very much understandable.
“Marie and Pauline wrote the letter and gave it to the postman, but the next thing the head nun, the other horrible cruel nun and staff lined us all in the rec demanding to know who wrote the letter as the postman had given it back to Sister X.”
I heard a similar story and outcome of it on the “Dear Daughter” documentary which depicts life in GB. Did this story happen on another occasion?
It was sad to hear about the death Kathleen O’ Neill, Mary Gavin and Valerie Logue and Bridie Gaynor. Would you have remembered them at all?
“The only available water for us to drink was from the toilet – with mouths dry with fear there was a rush to the toilet.”
Yeah, I vividly remember sticking a can (with gold mirrored lining inside) into the end of the yard stinking toilets to scoop up water to drink. It was so refreshing. I also remember being dragged out of bed in the Sacred Heart (‘wet the bed’ dormitory) in the early hours of the morning and being forced to sit two to one toilet. Children invariably slipped on the drenched urine floors in their confused overtired states as well as from being pushed by staff to hurry up. I also used to wash my underclothes at the dead of night and place them between the torn army blanket or underneath my sheet where I lay. This way I got out of being humiliated when we had to show them to the staff for inspection. As you know, children who were not crafty enough were subjected to having them put up on display in the workroom.
Thank you L. I. for opening our B&W eyes to witchcraft in Nigeria. Crikey, you really had to put up with a lot of nerve-wrecking bullying at the Cultural Centre in Calabar.
So called Evangelist Helen Ukpabio and other pastors (who are presumably raking in exorbitant amounts of dosh from their nefarious, monstrous witchcraft rag trades) have certainly got a lot to answer for trying to foist these fiendish witchcraft labels on to innocent children.
Because of the dastardly presence of them and the Boko Haram Islamic sect, life sounds so utterly discomfiting for ordinary folk in Nigeria.
On several occasions in the past I accompanied a person to a Pentecostal “Victory” church in Westland Row, Dublin. I was bowled over with the beautiful singing. I shall be thinking differently about what the real ideology of this church is, in future. A lot of the attendees and organisers would be of Nigerian or African nationality.
The Nigerian Humanist Movement and Stepping Stones Nigeria are doing marvellous work and are to be congratulated indeed! Well done, Leo igwe!
Mr Leach,
In which piece did I use the word ‘retribution’ to describe justice?
You write:
‘I would like to see you and the rest of B&W make more of an effort to distance themsleves, as liberal critics of Islam, from racist critics of innocent Muslim immigrants’.
I’ve done this many times, so I don’t believe you’ve actually read my work. For example, from pieces of mine on the BNP’s claims that groups like al-Muhajiroun are mainstream:
‘The majority of Muslims in the UK have no interest in Choudary and his bizarre vanity organisations. The majority of Muslims in the UK are what Tarek Fatah refers to as “nine-to-five Muslims” who “are mostly concerned with making a living and getting ahead”‘.
(http://bit.ly/f4R4Q)
‘If the majority of Muslims in Britain really subscribe to views like these then why do the media have to rely so heavily on this one man and his groups for their scare stories about Muslims? The simple answer is that the majority of Muslims in Britain don’t really subscribe to views like these … When the BNP talks about “Muslims” abusing British troops in its election material it makes it sound as though Choudary and the “Followers of Ahl us-Sunah wal-Jamaa’ah” nutters he leads are representative of British Muslims as a whole, and this is a deliberate and devious lie’.
(http://bit.ly/TTeGy)
On the other stuff, here’s the deal: I do not accept that those who explicitly seek to destroy liberal democratic society should be treated under the normal rules of liberal democratic societies. To do so is suicidal. Treating a Jihadist who seeks to destroy the West as ‘rational’ or someone with equal ‘rights’ to those he would destroy is idiocy. We are at war with a theocratic ideology, and in war things change, and have to change. Liberalism cannot defend itself otherwise. For example, to save the West from Nazism we killed large numbers of people; that’s unfortunate, but was necessary.
Tony Blair said that we must ‘balance between the rights of the individual and the rights of the community to basic security.’ That is a sane and rational position.
And, by the way, your claim that ‘some of your views make you sound like a veritable BNP thug’ illustrates that you really don’t understand BNP ideology or BNP thuggery, which is based on racial hatred and violence against people solely on the basis of the colour of their skin, none of which has anything to do with positions. Read my report on the BNP if you want to know what they actually believe and you’ll see they and I are worlds apart:
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/publications
Incidentally, there is no me ‘and the rest of B&W’ for, as far as I’m aware, there is no B&W ‘party line’. I contribute to B&W, but have no say in who gets published or the direction of the site, as that’s down to Ophelia. Ophelia and I agree on a fair amount, and you and I would probably agree on a fair amount, but I wouldn’t say I’m in lockstep with her or any other contributors. For example, Ophelia, like you, signed the Third Camp statement, which is something I certainly wouldn’t do. But then Ophelia certainly wouldn’t endorse my views on the war on terror. A broad church and all that…
Paula Bourges-Waldegg in her defence of evolutionists suggests, “The best way to avoid discrimination is precisely by learning to discriminate between facts and fiction”. What she appears not to have noticed is that evolutionists frequently fail to make such a distinction by using the “evolution of the gaps” approach to the theory of natural selection. In other words if all else fails attribute change to evolution – it fills in any gaps and it avoids having to provide empirical evidence.
In addition, her characterisation of religious people is naive. Referring to to idea that Allah “guided” the planes on 9/11 she fails to understand that 9/11 was a political act dressed in religious clothing, not a religious act carried out for political purposes.
To confirm what Edmund says, there is no B&W party line as such – there’s just what I do or don’t like. I don’t always agree with every word of every article, but that’s just normal for any publication. Who on earth would want to read nothing but that which I agreed with down to the last word?!
Standing:
In The Retreat of Reason, you write “The purpose of all law and order policies is to provide justice (otherwise known as retribution), deterrence and rehabilitation.”– this was the quote to which I was referring. I suspect we would disagree considerably about issues of criminal justice, but that is not the main issue here. A few other points: I understand that B&W represents a diversity of viewpoints, yet it is essentially devoted to liberal, rationalist critiques of illiberal foggy-mindedness and religiosity: I just want to make sure that this doesn’t bleed into any more nefarious doctrines, which it generally does not, and I thank the whole B&W team for that. I also understand that you’ve criticized the BNP for being ideologically racist rather than legitimately critical of Islam. For this I applaud you. However, I believe that your support for racial profiling suggests that you do not mind compromising in a basic way the rights of innocent Muslim minorities.
Liberalism is not a dogmatic belief system which requires that people accept its tenets in order to enjoy its benefits. Obviously, one would wish that everyone supported liberal democracy, yet they do not. The essence of liberalism is its tolerance for the right of everyone to speak her mind and to enjoy life and basic freedom, including freedom from torture.
Just to be clear again, Joshua –
“I thank the whole B&W team for that”
There is no team. I’m all there is.
I’m not the author of ‘The Retreat of Reason’ and I wasn’t endorsing it entirely, but pointing you to the section on racial profiling, which I agree with.
Hence the fact I wrote ‘My position is the same as the one found in the book “The Retreat of Reason”‘. –And that was when I was explicitly talking about the ‘racial profiling’ question. The argument put forward by Anthony Browne (the author) on *this issue* is one I agree with. In the wider perspective, I’d endorse much, but not *all*, of ‘The Retreat of Reason’.
Standing:
Ah. A rather elementary mistake on my part: I apologize. But I do believe my point about racial profiling still stands.
I’ve rarely found any sentiment quite so corrosive, wrong-headed and deeply offensive to my most deeply held ideals as the myth of the holy fool, though before I read Joshua Leach’s short essay I’d never heard the term. Bravo! (I especially liked the analysis of the grotesque “The Death of Ivan Illyich,” which I was once forced to read and lead a discussion section on by some awful hack of an ultra-Christian pseudo-philosopher in graduate school. *blech*)
Reading this essay, I found myself reminded of that beautiful but insidious old Quaker spiritual:
No, actually, it isn’t a gift. It’s a curse, or at best a very mixed and circumstance-dependent blessing. There may be some virtue in learning to be content with what you have, and certainly modern consumerist culture could do with an infusion of simplicity, or perhaps Buddhist detachment from mere stuff. But there is no virtue in quiet acceptance of perpetual injustice, subordination, and oppression – the usual reasons most people have so very little, with which they must perforce find what contentment they can. There is nothing wrong with lauding those among the poor and oppressed who – from inner strength or lack of alternatives or ignorance or sheer exhaustion – have come to accept their lot in life with some grace, perhaps even genuine joy. But there is something perverse about admiring their “simple” strength while ignoring the ugly circumstances and causes they are rising above, the very thing that make their capacity for happiness so admirable: A young person may show admirable courage, strength, resolve, and even joi de vivre in the face of terminal cancer, but that doesn’t make cancer a fine thing and nothing to concern ourselves about!
The myth that people living with boots on their necks are perfectly happy that way and wouldn’t know what to do if the boots were lifted has always been a favorite of those wearing the boots: It’s especially appropriate to name that myth the “Holy Fool,” because religion has long been a powerful tool for not only fostering the myth, but for giving it as much truth as possible. That is, the boot wearers have much to gain by the masses being brainwashed into accepting or even happily embracing the boots on their necks, such as by convincing them that they really *deserve* the boots on their necks (original sin), or that the boots are just temporary and unimportant compared to bootless eternity (heaven), or that the boot-wearers are just doing God’s will (divine right of kings, various kinds of outright theocracy, etc.). It’s all very ugly when you look at it without the carefully constructed filters of sentiment used by those who sing the praises of the Holy Fool.
Thanks Felis– Right on!
Great article. The Holy Fool is a trope thats keeps on giving; Forrest Gump comes to mind (although Tarantino reckoned that the movie was actually cleverly subversive, in that it showed a retarded conformist prospering while an intelligent rebel just gets herself crushed).
A small quibble with G Felis: “A Simple Gift” is a Shaker hymn, not a Quaker one. Traditionally, Quakers did not engage in group singing or include music in their services.
In reference to Jahanshah Rashidian’s article ‘Rape in the Mullahs’ Prisons’:
Using the classic phrase for avoidance of authorial responsibility ‘it is believed that’, Rashidian makes the following astonishing claim:
‘It is believed that religious permission of rape, including male-rape, of ‘opponents of the Islamic regime’ has been recently given by Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi, the monitor and spiritual guru of president Ahmadinejad. Islamic authorities usually deny that rape is being committed in their prisons, fearing strong reaction from the public, both inside and outside…
In an interview at the Jamkaran gathering after the revelation of rape in the Mullah’s prisons, Mesbah Yazdi was asked: “Can an interrogator rape the prisoner in order to obtain a confession?” He answered: “The necessary precaution is for the interrogator to perform a ritual washing first and say prayers while raping the prisoner. If the prisoner is female, it is permissible to rape through the vagina or anus. It is better not to have a witness present. If it is a male prisoner, then it’s acceptable for someone else to watch while the rape is committed.”’
Rashidian cites no source for this claim, and it seems to have been debunked: http://enduringamerica.com/2009/09/04/iran-satire-becomes-news-ahmadinejads-ayatollah-and-prisoner-rape/
This kind of ugly rumour-mongering really should be beyond the pale. Or can Mr. Rashidian defend his claims?
The truth will out,I remember there were a few girls in goldenbridge who were born extreamly bright, had they been given the chance could have been high achievers in the outside world one we called new’s who by some miracle seemed to know what was going on not only in goldenbridge but in the outside world,her intelligence showed through no matter what they did to her,two others equally as intelligent and this person put their minds and ideas together Marie, Pauline Lizzy,as none of us could take any more of the beatings neglect,cruelty ,the pain of having to watch flogings by nuns and staff often until we children passed out to be dragged to the dormitory ,or locked in the cupboard on the back stairs in pain,one of these girls called Pauline said her uncle gussi was the irish army boxing champion he would come and rescue us all with the army so the three girls wrote a letter out to the uncle telling him about the horrors we were all suffering every day so marie and pauline wrote the letter and gave it to the postman ,but the next thing the head nun,the other horrible cruel nun and staff lined us all in the rec demanding to know who wrote the letter as the postman had given it back to sister (nun)x she was red in the face with rage foaming at the mouth bashing us with her stick screaming into our faces yelling whoever wrote that letter will wish they were never born,(which we all wished anyway)the two girls white as sheets they were called Marie and Pauline were draged out by the hair and the beating they suffered,especially the one called pauline she was made to stand in only her knickers having had been dragged into the rec by the hair arms ,legs,the head nun and sister F pounded into the child with fists sticks belt,pauling was laid out cold on the floor we all thought she was dead blood came from her mouth you could see the welts on her small body marie was having some sort of fit,they just dragged them up the backstairs and threw them on the bed,No doctor was called ,no visitors allowed ,she had a sister at goldenbridge who was made to watch this she was also beaten for crying i believe the sister ended up in hospital.we were all to frightened to breath out loud .the only available water for us to drink was from the toilet with mouths dry with fear there was a rush to the toilet.Marie O’Laughlin you are a good person to let the world know the truth.
“I remember there were a few girls in Goldenbridge who were born extremely bright, had they been given the chance could have been high achievers in the outside world”
Were not the names you mention given the opportunity by the Sisters of Mercy to go to the outside national/secondary school, during the same time as Christine (Chrissie West) Buckley? From what I gather some other children bowed out due to school pressures. I learned from CB that M.C. and P.J. were exceptional (outside school) scholars.
Do you have any recollection of Sr. M.B. from whom Sr. X alleged learned her skills? I believe she was even worse than the latter.
Yeah, a lot of children used to hide in the cupboard when they did not want to go to evening-times benediction in the chapel. I recall being locked (for an inordinate amount of time) in the shoe-room on the landing, when I was very small. I also remember staff threatening to throw children out of the two storeyed high Sacred Heart window if they were tumbling about in play.
“None of us could take any more of the beatings neglect, cruelty, the pain of having to watch floggings by nuns and staff”
Do you ever remember children (who either wet their beds or whatever else) having to line up in St Patrick’s – the queue even sometimes extended into St. Philomena’s and beyond into the washroom. Sr. X relished so much flogging and lashing the living ‘bejasus’ daylight out of them. It seemed to me that this ‘fix” was so desperately needed by her in order to get through her day. Yeah, children were absolutely worn out with the beatings and there was nobody around to rescue them as the other staff who stood by were too much in awe of her. Some victims/survivors who went to the commission to inquire into institutional abuse to tell their stories to Judge Ryan were still controlled by Sr. X. as when they were asked by Sr. Helena O’ Donoghue if they wished to see Sr. X. they did not refuse and even gave the latter a big hug. Nonetheless, it is very much understandable.
“Marie and Pauline wrote the letter and gave it to the postman, but the next thing the head nun, the other horrible cruel nun and staff lined us all in the rec demanding to know who wrote the letter as the postman had given it back to Sister X.”
I heard a similar story and outcome of it on the “Dear Daughter” documentary which depicts life in GB. Did this story happen on another occasion?
It was sad to hear about the death Kathleen O’ Neill, Mary Gavin and Valerie Logue and Bridie Gaynor. Would you have remembered them at all?
“The only available water for us to drink was from the toilet – with mouths dry with fear there was a rush to the toilet.”
Yeah, I vividly remember sticking a can (with gold mirrored lining inside) into the end of the yard stinking toilets to scoop up water to drink. It was so refreshing. I also remember being dragged out of bed in the Sacred Heart (‘wet the bed’ dormitory) in the early hours of the morning and being forced to sit two to one toilet. Children invariably slipped on the drenched urine floors in their confused overtired states as well as from being pushed by staff to hurry up. I also used to wash my underclothes at the dead of night and place them between the torn army blanket or underneath my sheet where I lay. This way I got out of being humiliated when we had to show them to the staff for inspection. As you know, children who were not crafty enough were subjected to having them put up on display in the workroom.
Re: Leo Igwe’s Public Symposium on Witchcraft.
Thank you L. I. for opening our B&W eyes to witchcraft in Nigeria. Crikey, you really had to put up with a lot of nerve-wrecking bullying at the Cultural Centre in Calabar.
So called Evangelist Helen Ukpabio and other pastors (who are presumably raking in exorbitant amounts of dosh from their nefarious, monstrous witchcraft rag trades) have certainly got a lot to answer for trying to foist these fiendish witchcraft labels on to innocent children.
Because of the dastardly presence of them and the Boko Haram Islamic sect, life sounds so utterly discomfiting for ordinary folk in Nigeria.
On several occasions in the past I accompanied a person to a Pentecostal “Victory” church in Westland Row, Dublin. I was bowled over with the beautiful singing. I shall be thinking differently about what the real ideology of this church is, in future. A lot of the attendees and organisers would be of Nigerian or African nationality.
The Nigerian Humanist Movement and Stepping Stones Nigeria are doing marvellous work and are to be congratulated indeed! Well done, Leo igwe!