Karen Armstrong squares the circle
It’s not a newsflash that Karen Armstrong is not one of the clearest thinkers in the world – but nevertheless the opening sentence of her sermon on compassion at Comment is Free set me back a little.
The practice of compassion is central to every one of the major world religions – but sometimes you would never know it.
But sometimes you would never know it – good one. Did she write this while taking a bath and watching Celebrity Big Brother, or what? But more to the point is the fundamental and pathetic incoherence of the basic thought: the practice of compassion is central to every one of the major world religions, and yet oddly enough in real life the very opposite is enacted daily and hourly. Hum hum hum. So in what sense is it central then? Eh? Eh? If sometimes we would never know it, how does Armstrong know it? If sometimes we would never know it, in what sense is it fucking true?
It’s not true. It’s flattery. It’s a greasy smear of flattery for a nasty institution that perpetrates stupid or vicious cruelties everywhere you look.
Instead, religion is associated with violence, intolerance and seems more preoccupied by dogmatic or sexual orthodoxy.
It seems more preoccupied by dogmatic or sexual orthodoxy because it is. Armstrong perhaps wants to persuade it to better by heaping coals of fire on its head – but she shouldn’t talk nonsense in the process.
“Armstrong perhaps wants to persuade it to better by heaping coals of fire on its head”
Aye, and in the process, of this, perhaps, betterment, by persuasion, use its fancy headgear as slack to generate heat- so that it might, just might, then melt within its head, to release this burning desire, called compassion.
Karen Armstrong is on a mission to shield Islam from criticism.
I’m not sure about her politics but I assume she is of the opinion that the violence we see in the Muslim world has more to do with Western imperialism than Islamic Ideology. So she is trying to tell the world cliches like “Islam means peace”
The fact is that Islam means, submission to the will of Allah as revealed in the Koran and it’s central tenets are the imperative of blindly accepting the Koran as perfect and that Mohammad had perfect morals.
It’s not about compassion, it separates the world into Muslim and kafir. The Koran states that Muslims must not take non Muslims as friends and on almost everypage Allah talks of mocking, condemning and burning the non believers. Where is the compassion in that?
Islam is about dualism (Sufism is not I grant you that) and obedience.
It does teach charity but because of the Korans demonisation of ‘the other’ and the dogmatic solidarity that Muslims ‘must’ have with each other this “charity” manifests itself as charity for other Muslims only and usually in the form of funding for various wars against the infidel.
Hardly the charity based on compassion that we in the secular West think of.
Islam does teach respect for parents and builds strong family units. This is something we in the west could learn from. Oh and it teaches cleanliness. Which is hardly an amazing spiritual or social insight.
In no way is compassion central to Islam, lesser jihad is more central to Islam than compassion.
To be honest I have read the Koran and I can’t recollect any mention of compassion. Well not the compassion for all humans we see in some branches of Christianity.
Why have compassion for idolaters and Atheists when their very existence angers the one true god.
In Islam there is definitely nothing like the compassion for all sentient beings found in Buddhism and Jainism.
In Jainism and Buddhism compassion is central.
In Christianity forgiveness is central and compassion certainly plays a role but not a central one. The central teaching of Christianity is the imperative in believing the absurd Jesus story as written incoherently in the gospels.
When will the obvious fawning and dishonest apologetics of people like Armstrong cease to find respect in the mainstream press?
Sam Harris is right, our religions do not all teach the same things and where they do teach the same things they do not teach them equally well.
The sooner we get over this wishy washy moderate politically correct tosh the better.
I don’t quibble with the ‘politically correct tosh’ description of Armstrong’s piece, but it does seem to me that in point of fact Muslim charity is serious to most believers, lots of it goes to the actual poor, and it is carried out with the giver’s own money.
Probably just my ignorant orientalist prejudice speaking though.
But what ChrisP said is irrelevant to (and not in contradiction of) what Luke said. The fact that lots of Muslim charity goes to the actual poor says nothing about whether it goes exclusively to the Muslim poor, for instance.
True enough, but the point being addressed is whether compassion as enforced by Islam is central to the religion. I cannot quibble with the obvious lack of compassion in the sexual oppression and violence in the religion, but it is evident that compassion for the poor is central because it is one of the ‘five pillars’ and genuinely practised.
It seems the Charter is another convenient way for religion to steal the moral highground, and bully everyone else into accepting it. If the atheists and agnostics refuse to acknowledge or support a Charter that gives some sort of “ownership” of compassion to the religious (as, going by the wording in the article, it seems it is mainly a platform for religious leaders) then the atheists and agnostics are made to look divisive, bitter, petty and petulant.
Compassion is obviously a beautiful component of human experience that should be encouraged and lauded, but not on terms dictated by ancient belief systems that should have no relevance in contemporary society, let alone the centre stage on ethical discussions.
Koran Armstrong is a douchebag for trying to absolve Mohammad, the mass murderer, and the gutter doctrine of Islam. As a proud Muslim apostate let me say that Islam is about oppression, obscurantism and power. “Respect for the weak” as this douchebag says, can be found in the literal word of Allah, in the Koran, where women are to be beaten and disinherited from wealth.
I am surprised that Guardian allows such douchebags to operate with such respect.
BTW — Kudos to Max Dunbar – “The New Atheists”, and thanks as usual for this wonderful blog OB.
Hamidreza
ChrisPer: “but it does seem to me that in point of fact Muslim charity is serious to most believers, lots of it goes to the actual poor, and it is carried out with the giver’s own money.”
Heh — are you comparing zakât and xoms to social democracy? What a pea-brain. There is no accountability in the administration of zakât and xoms. Get us some NUMBERS, as to what part of the collection actually goes to the poor, or STFU. Of course you are just talking off the lefty (“alliance with Islam”) ideals, aren’t you?
You know nothing about the operation of a theocratic state, or for that matter a mosque, do you?
Thanks, Hamidreza.
Rose, All, Compassion beautiful? Why? – What about making sure compassion isn’t needed? This seems to become a case for charities & there’s nothing good at all about charities – they always have been there to get the poor endebted to these creeds. It isn’t an excuse if there are those woolly-minded compassionates that sincerely believe they do it sincerely, without ulterior motive – obviously the ulterior motive of charity-givers is to get charity-receivers to agree with ’em (as is quite clear from the uproar, and the outcries of ‘thankless filth’ we’re hearing every time this previously poor populace decides to watch reality shows instead of priests).
As far as I know the majority of zakat(charity) goes to fund Islamic pressure groups and the upkeep of mosques, dawah (Proselytizing) initiatives, the Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca) and funding jihad.
I know there are some good Islamic charities out there but the majority of zakat goes to spread the faith, fund jihadis and what little is left over goes to poor Muslims(Not wider humanity) and zakat still only goes to the right kind of Muslim. They have to follow the appropriate sect of Islam.
EG: Sunnis don’t fund the heterodox Shia and visa versa
Religious truth is declarative. It is therefore true that compassion is central to religion, because religion has declared it. Any apparent contradiction of this truth must therefore be a product of something other than religion.
I’ll have to get back to you about exactly how Jonah lived in that whale for so long, though.
“Do we need God and/or religion to be compassionate? Of course not. That is why we hope that atheists and agnostics, instead of berating religion (a policy that, as history shows, tends to make religious movements more extreme), will also sign up to the charter, working alongside the religious for a more compassionate world.”
Oh, so that’s what makes them more extreme? Being upset by having their power threatened? If you just do what the religious would require of you, they’ll be gentle as lambs.
Befarmaid, Hamidreza Agha. I have merely met real muslims as their guest and as my guests, seen riots in Masshad that the Government followed by rounding up and executing 120 or so people; met a man released from Evin prison, still with all his limbs but rather less teeth; seen the people of Kashmir scraping a living helping me climb mountains and enjoy myself; heard the sad cries of the poor carpet sellers of Essaouira deprived of their rich customers by 911; and had muslim colleagues at work in two countries. I haven’t had to escape it, just recognise that one or two people are still Muslims and sincere in good hearts.
I think if you spent any time here you would know I am the village idiot rightwinger not a leftard friend of murderers. Please feel free, though, to join in seeing only evil in whole populations of fellow humans. Your experience is more to the point than mine.
“Oh, so that’s what makes them more extreme? Being upset by having their power threatened?”
Ha. Exactly what Jeremy and I have been discussing in regard to the conclusion of our book.
ChrisP – do you seriously think I’m saying anything that denies that ‘one or two people are still Muslims and sincere in good hearts’?
I don’t dispute that there are good Muslims. I have many good friends who are Muslim, some of them very conservative. I have lived in Muslim countries and my ex girlfriend was a Muslim.
As long as people don’t commit or support violence then I have no problem. I don’t debate with them because I know my critique would be taken as offensive and I respect them to much to offend them. I only debate people who wish to engage in debate and I respect those who’s beliefs are private even if I think those beliefs are nutty and dangerous.
I can disagree with them politically and religiously without making them sworn enemies.
If I disagreed with a Tory friend because I thought his political views were stupid and dangerous that wouldn’t make me a bigot so why do you imply that criticism of the religion called Islam is somehow bigoted?
Don’t confuse the criticism of the Islamic ideology with the racist ideas of the BNP because my criticism comes from a Left wing support of secular values and has nothing to do with bigotry or racism.
I’m not condemning people, I’m condemning Islam as an ideology.
There is a difference you know.
“Islam does teach respect for parents and builds strong family units.
Aye, Luke, it does build strong (segregated) family (windowless) units at the back of its houses for women and children, so that the rest of the world will not view them as they are the chattels of men only.
Where kind of respect, do you think is shown in that piece of information towards female species? Zilch.
“This is something we in the west could learn from.”
We in the West do not need “Islam” to teach us how to show respect. We need ‘human beings’ to show us that, that is, if we have not already learned it as young children, from our parents and caregivers.
“Oh and it teaches cleanliness. Which is hardly an amazing spiritual or social insight.”
Even cats know how to clean themselves.
It is instinctive for them to do so.
We humans do not need ‘Islam’ to teach us how to be clean. Children in general, are taught to clean themselves by their parents.
ChrisPer, my apologies for going berzerk for a moment there. Nothing to do with your predilections. Just my sorry flame throwing style. -best
Hamidreza, all is well, hope to see more of your comments here and get to know you a bit better!
OB, I have read your work long enough to know your depth and your understanding of people.