God-talk as an unstated norm
Ron Aronson recently pointed out what secularists have to get used to.
In the vast heartland of suburban and semirural America, they grow accustomed to new acquaintances greeting them by asking what church they go to. At work, they get used to God-talk as an unstated norm…In the news media, they get used to reading or hearing that the appropriate response to stressful situations is to turn to God. They also grow accustomed to putting up with offhand insults,…would-be presidents criticizing them for trying to keep religion out of public places…When will they demand that the spirit of multiculturalism be extended to those who do not pray, instead of the widespread assumption that religious values, norms and practices apply to everyone?
Not very soon, it would seem. Elizabeth Dole’s tv ad calling her rival ‘godless’ and the rival’s response that she is not either godless is depressing evidence for that suggestion. Hagan points out that she taught Sunday school and takes umbrage at this attack on her ‘faith’ – and not enough people point out that being ‘godless’ is not actually a crime, much less that being godfull is not necessarily a virtue.
Obama, too: his favorite book is the Bible, whereas (godless!) McCain’s is “For Whom the Bell Tolls”.
This reminds me of the old briefing for those visiting Australia and intent on a flavour-sampling tour taking in all the state capitals, plus the federal capital of Canberra and the remote capital of the Northern Territory:
You get to Perth, and they say “have a beer!”
You get to Adelaide, and they say “what church do you belong to?”
You get to Melbourne and they say “what football club do you support?”
You get to Canberra, and they ask (while looking down their nose): “At which level do you work?”
You get to Sydney, and they say “how much money have you got?”
You get to Brisbane and they say “have another beer!”
Finally you arrive in Darwin, and they simply ask “who are you running from?”
Wow…now why might it be that his article sounds exactly like Florence, KY? :-)
But, interestingly, a whole lot less like Ashland, KY, just 120-odd miles east down the AA highway…?
So much to dislike about Florence, so little time… :-)
Obama’s favourite book is the bible? I strongly doubt that. Who says so? Where?
Obamba’s not godless, unfortunately, but he’s not so narrow that his fave book is likely to be the bible.
I quote from a recent Salon articlea about Obama:
“a recent release cited William Shakespeare and Ernest Hemingway as the candidate’s favorite authors.”
Not a bible anywhere to be seen!
Here’s the link:
http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2008/07/07/obama_books/
Hemingway. He and McCain both pick Hemingway. Yuck. I think I’ll vote for Nader.
“He and McCain both pick Hemingway. Yuck. I think I’ll vote for Nader.”
Talk about letting the perfect be the enemy of the good!
How is talking about God in US politics different from wearing a tie on Capitol Hill? It’s a nuisance of a custom – but it seems mostly irrelevant, as it needs to be – like one of those colds that’re impossible to shake for a long time.
The real issue is that there is quite a portion of the people that actually are believing it.
I guess the difference would be that most people would empathise with you if you said you didn’t like wearing a tie, whereas suggesting even obliquely that your religious faith was not sincere and deeply felt would put you in a persecuted minority just like that…
Oh, please – tie-wearing is not a substantive statement of any kind, while belief in God emphatically is. That’s just a ridiculous question.
Well maybe but I for one would have no problem saying I believe in God whilst not actually believing in God. I guess I did that many times already – coming out is a good thing but not at cost of everything.
(Again, it shouldn’t be like that – it is a disgrace that it is like that and it is a worthy cause to ensure it’s no longer like that but uttering the word does not imply you mean it)
Paris is worth a mass?
I don’t doubt Obama is a christian, but I don’t see it as a problem. Actually, I don’t see McCain’s professed christianity as a problem either, as neither have played that card any more than was necessary to get over the threshold. Palin, on the other hand…
At least Obama didn’t feel the need to pick a running mate who could pull in the evangelical vote.
But the fact that it’s a disgrace that it’s like that is what I’m talking about, so I’m not sure what your point is.
On CBS news, McCain mentioned only “For Whom the Bell Tolls”, while Obama mentioned three, starting with the Bible.
Katie Couric: What is your favorite book of all time?
Barack Obama: Well, the bible is the book that shaped me and moved me the most….
And from his own website, showing more feet of religious clay:
“I think we make a mistake when we fail to acknowledge the power of faith in people’s lives — in the lives of the American people — and I think it’s time that we join a serious debate about how to reconcile faith with our modern, pluralistic democracy.
“And if we’re going to do that then we first need to understand that Americans are a religious people. 90 percent of us believe in God, 70 percent affiliate themselves with an organized religion, 38 percent call themselves committed Christians, and substantially more people in America believe in angels than they do in evolution.
“This religious tendency is not simply the result of successful marketing by skilled preachers or the draw of popular mega-churches. In fact, it speaks to a hunger that’s deeper than that – a hunger that goes beyond any particular issue or cause…
“You need to come to church in the first place precisely because you are first of this world, not apart from it. You need to embrace Christ precisely because you have sins to wash away – because you are human and need an ally in this difficult journey.
“…what I am suggesting is this – secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King – indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history – were not only motivated by faith, but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. So to say that men and women should not inject their “personal morality” into public policy debates is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.”
Ick.
That’s one reason I ignored him for a long time.
Well you can’t have everything.
Move to Australia OB. The beer isn’t mandatory, and for public office being actively religious is a strong negative.
Ohio for Obama!
Congratulations OB and everyone, exciting times indeed.
Yeah Ohio. And Iowa and New Mexico, and then blam blam blam, the whole shooting match.
Whe-ew. That was…that was something.
OB, mostly I agree with your point, so I am condemned to compare beliefs in a God to wearing a tie.
(the Obama quote merely means ha wears his tie extremely well, I cannot see a reference to anything concrete and one has to applaud his inclusion of “gay & straight” in his speech
I have to add, boringly – Yuck, indeed)
Yeah, Colorado/New Mexico seem to be strong isolated democratic states among a red sea. The blue’s won by a large margin @ 62/% in NY @ 59/% in CA.
“U.S. public safety officials worry that if Democrat Obama loses to Republican John McCain and there is a suspicion of foul play, violence could erupt in cities with large black populations.”
-victory-party-police-steel-riots-McCain-wi
ns-vote.htm
I think if this was a real case scenario – it would not be at all the right thing to do. They would be putting the gun to people’s heads just because it did not go their way. It is a scary thought. Sorry, I do not want to put the dampners on the wonderful momentous American historical occasion.