Why do atheists get crabby?
I trust you enjoyed Greta Christina’s ‘Atheists and Anger’. I know I did.
I’m angry that atheist soldiers – in the U.S. armed forces – have had prayer ceremonies pressured on them and atheist meetings broken up by Christian superior officers, in direct violation of the First Amendment…I’m angry that atheist soldiers who are complaining about this are being harassed and are even getting death threats from Christian soldiers and superior officers…I’m angry that the 41st President of the United States, George Herbert Walker Bush, said of atheists, in my lifetime, “No, I don’t know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God.”…I’m angry that women are dying of AIDS in Africa and South America because the Catholic Church has convinced them that using condoms makes baby Jesus cry…I get angry when advice columnists tell their troubled letter-writers to talk to their priest or minister or rabbi…when there is absolutely no legal requirement that a religious leader have any sort of training in counseling or therapy…I’m angry at preachers who tell women in their flock to submit to their husbands because it’s the will of God, even when their husbands are beating them within an inch of their lives…I get angry when other believers insist that the cosmic shopping list isn’t what religion and prayer are really about; that their own sophisticated theology is the true understanding of God. I get angry when believers insist that the shopping list is a straw man, an outmoded form of religion and prayer that nobody takes seriously, and it’s absurd for atheists to criticize it.
That’s just a small sample. Later there’s a long series of epistemic anger-sources, many of which we’ve discussed here (not surprisingly, all this stuff being in our faces, so to speak). One of my favourites (but I like them all) is:
I get angry when believers say at the beginning of an argument that their belief is based on reason and evidence, and at the end of the argument say things like, “It just seems that way to me,” or, “I feel it in my heart”… as if that were a clincher. I mean, couldn’t they have said that at the beginning of the argument, and not wasted my fucking time?
And then it winds up by pointing out that anger is necessary for reform and change, also something we’ve discussed here. Angry atheists unite.
That double-step from ‘all reason’ to ‘just feelings’ at the end – I admire that response to it.
In the end, if you look at evidence fairly there is left only one reason: ‘because I CHOOSE to believe’. Unfortunately, belief demands reality be adjusted so the ‘feelings’ are treated as though they are personal visitations of divinity.
Things that make you go ‘Hm.’
OB: “And then it winds up by pointing out that anger is necessary for reform and change, also something we’ve discussed here.”
Is anger REALLY necessary for reform and change? As in the sense of ALWAYS? (I do not dispute that it is sometimes necssary.)
Hmmmm. Maybe almost always? Maybe passion or zeal will do as well?
But I suppose I think something like anger is always necessary for major reform and change (I should have stipulated major). The attitude to that which needs to be changed has to have a certain heat, or why bother? It can be impersonal anger – anger at inanimate objects or forces – but some kind of indifference-overcoming emotion is necessary.
Still…I probably did speak too loosely.
Trouble is if you add the anger it will attract the militant tag rather than the outspoken one you prefer O.B.
Yeah, I liked Great Christina’s post so much that I blogged about it and linked to it myself – and I’ve been pointed towards it by three or four other people as well. It’s taken a few weeks to spread around, but now it seems like every atheist in the world is either reading this or sending it to their friends to read – which I think is terrific!
It’s a wonderful post. I wasn’t convinced at the beginning, for the reason Richard gives (the danger of the “militancy” tag). But it’s just so eloquent and well reasoned that I found reading it exhilarating and, above all, very positive.
Militant? No no – strident and triumphalist; that’s the ticket.
Hey and here was me not even knowing you blogged, G. You should have said!
I am angry with Roman Catholic priests who are so unreservedly daft/dippy when they say, “We do not like to use the word wine, as it is Christ’s blood in the Eucharist, but still has all the characteristics of wine when in the blood-stream.” Nevertheless, the use of non-alcoholic wine at Masses is not an option according to Father Brian D’arcy, (Enniskillen) as the Vatican banned its use in the Eucharist. He also says, “priests say drinking alter wine is a bigger worry as it goes into their bloodstreams and takes longer to process, “even if I took only a mouthful of wine from the chalice at all three Masses I feel that this would put me over the new legal limit for driving.” Catholic doctrine states that wine is an essential part of the Eucharist. Consecrated wine must, by priest’s be consumed, as part of the Masses. Chalices have to be by priests- emptied, before going back into tabernacles. The limit in Ireland is 0.35pc breath-alcoholic concentration. However, according to the Irish Road Safety Authority the government will reduce the legal limit.
A nice glass of wine would not go amiss as I sit back and mull over all this anger and the hmmm-juicy contents to boot… of you know what? It might be just so tasteful and soothing. On the other hand, I might be just thrown out of here for being over the threshold/limits:-zero slurp slurrrrp! (gargle) :-0!
I don’t mention blogging much because I don’t blog much. I’ll go through a short stretch where I have something to say two or three times a week, then not even look at the darn thing for a month or two. It’s just not a priority for me.
OB: “Hmmmm…It can be impersonal anger – anger at inanimate objects or forces – but some kind of indifference-overcoming emotion is necessary.”
I’m interested because I do not like to get (or be) angry. It is an emotion I associate with destruction, rather than construction, so I regard it as an option of last resort.
Does that mean I have no hope of changing things? Do the people who generate great change do so through anger? Or through determination? Or passion and zeal?
Or through hope. No, you’re probably right – it’s probably not always necessary.
Apropos an earlier theme on ‘militant’ atheists:
http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2007/11/taking-humanist.html
Perhaps M-T O’L can remind us of just what the rules are for reservation of the sacraments. Is it absolutely necessary that if the priest, being somewhat over optimistic in his count of the communicants, must consume the remaining elements of the eucharist Might he not choose to reserve them?
Cynic that I am, I daresay that overoptimism has often been a cover for alcoholism.
Elliott: “Cynic that I am, I daresay that overoptimism has often been a cover for alcoholism.”
I find the communion wine in Anglican service a refreshing and wholesome sip on a cold winter’s morning, and commemorating someone so worthwhile with it is very pleasing.
On the other hand, the grape juice that my current church uses is a purely symbolic beverage that has only sugar to recommend it. Obesity is not a problem from the measured portions.
As a photgrapher doing Italian weddings long ago, I saw Catholic priests consume the extra and can’t see any big deal. It isn’t like they are banned from grog in between times.
Elliot: “Perhaps M-T O’L can remind us of just what the rules are for reservation of the sacraments.”
Google: “Post-synodal Apostolic Exhortation Sacramentum Caritatis
It will explain to you The Roman Catholic churches teaching on the Eucharist, including the structure for the reservation and adoration of Holy Communion.
From my own observations of the reservation of the sacraments, I know that priests ordinarily on a small scale drinks any left-over consecrated alter wine and eat leftover communion wafers from the ciboria. In fact, according to canonical law they are the only ones allowed to do this – which I think is ridiculous. Catholic doctrine states that wine is an essential part of the Eucharist. (No wonder there are so many priests with drinking problems. They do not even know the strength of the alter wine – and can by the Gardai be stopped at checkpoints a moments notice and be breathalysed. Some of them could be going on visits to dying people or even to other parishes to say Masses and consuming yet again more wine.) Priests generally in Irish small rural parishes have a good idea as to the amount of daily communicants, and accordingly before mass count the wafers. Nonetheless, consecrated (transubstantiated) Holy Communion of a larger amount can be left by the priests in the ciborium’s – and be stored away in the sacred tabernacle. To be consumed at the next Mass. According to church law, they must consume wine, which has been by priests consecrated at Mass, as part of the Mass. Permission to use
“mustum” or grape juice can be by their superiors granted to priests affected by alcoholism or other conditions. Nevertheless, this is discretionary and the priests in question must present a medical certificate.
Google: Reservation of the Sacrament In the Early Church. “The keeping back from the public service of the Holy …. made provision for the reservation of the sacrament for the communion of sick …
http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/encyc/encyc09/htm/iv.vii.clxxvii.htm
Also: “Is Jesus Present in the Eucharist (Bread)”Here’s a theological explanation of what Catholics believe happens in …. He said to the woman, “Did God really say,’You must not eat from any tree in the …
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/eucharist.ht
I will be reserving a distinctive pew in the adjacent convent of the Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament at the rate I am going. You will then be asking me tell you all how they make Holy Communion wafers. I will be so angry and aggravated and uptight and cross…. und so weiter, with you all with your atheistic questioning minds that I will practically want to thrust the un-consecrated wafers down your unblessed tongues to convert you’re not so bright souls.