Reading Danny Postel in Tehran
Scott McLemee’s interview with Danny Postel is a must-read.
“In hundreds of conversations I’ve had with Iranian intellectuals, journalists, and human rights activists in recent years, I invariably encounter exasperation,” writes Danny Postel in Reading “Legitimation Crisis” in Tehran: Iran and the Future of Liberalism, a recent addition to the Prickly Paradigm pamphlet series distributed by the University of Chicago Press. “Why, they ask, is the American Left so indifferent to the struggle taking place in Iran? Why can’t the Iranian movement get the attention of so-called progressives and solidarity activists here?” Postel, a senior editor of the online magazine openDemocracy, sees the Iranian situation as a crucial test of whether soi-disant American “progressives” can think outside the logic that treats solidarity as something one extends only to people being hurt by client-states of the U.S. government.
Let’s hope so, because that logic ain’t no logic, and the US government isn’t the only source of oppression and misery in the world. It does its bit, but it does not have a monopoly.
[A]fter reading this short book, I had to wonder if there might be another legitimation crisis under way – one affecting American scholars and activists who see themselves as progressives, who thrill to that oft-repeated demand to “speak truth to power.” An unwillingness to extend support to the Iranian opposition puts into question any claim to internationalism, solidarity against oppression, or defense of intellectual freedom.
It does. Then again, Scott asks in the interview portion, ‘isn’t the desire to avoid saying anything that could be useful to the neocons at least somewhat understandable?’
Yes, I do think the desire to avoid saying things that could be useful to the neocons is somewhat understandable. But it can also be a cop-out. It was actually more understandable back in 2002-5, when the neocons were endlessly frothing on about their support for democracy and human rights in Iran and it wasn’t as clear to the naked eye how bogus those claims were. Over the last year, however, there’s been a palpable and significant, though largely unnoticed, shift in neocon rhetoric about Iran. They rarely talk about democracy and human rights anymore.
Now it’s all about security, and threatening rhetoric.
That puts them at direct odds with the democratic dissidents and human rights activists in Iran, who are unequivocally opposed to any U.S. attack on their country…What the neocons want in Tehran is a pro-U.S. and pro-Israeli regime; whether it’s a democratic one or not is an entirely secondary matter to them. And Iranian dissidents know this, which is why they want nothing to do with the neocons…Due to intellectual laziness, a preference for moral simplicity, existential bad faith, or some combination thereof, lots of leftists have opted out of even expressing moral support, let alone standing in active solidarity with, Iranian dissidents, often on the specious grounds that the latter are on the CIA’s payroll or are cozy with the neocons. Utter and complete tripe.
Okay then. I got worried about that, as I think I’ve mentioned here, when Ramin Jahanbegloo was released from prison and gave that interview to the students’ news agency, saying he’d been deceived by human rights groups in the west and urging other Iranian intellectuals not to be deceived. I got worried I might taint dissidents inside Iran via solidarity or publication or signing petitions – not because I’m a neocon, but just because perhaps any western contact would be a taint. I wasn’t sure what to think. But Maryam Namazie made short work of that worry when she interviewed me. She said no, definitely not, dissidents want the solidarity and support; never mind about any taint, just as the struggle against apartheid didn’t. Okay then, I thought. And it became a little clearer that Jahanbegloo’s interview was coerced, thus what he said there had to be discounted. Okay then.
Leftists should be arguing not that we might say things that the neocons could put to nefarious ends but, on the contrary, that neocon pronouncements about Iran are fraudulent and toxic. The neocons are hardly in a position to employ anyone’s arguments about human rights and democracy in Iran when they themselves have forfeited that turf. Indeed it’s not the neocons but rather liberals and leftists opposed to attacking Iran who turn out to be on the same page with Iranian dissidents on this Mother of All Issues. It is we who stand in solidarity with Iranian human rights activists and student protesters and dissident intellectuals, not the Bush administration or the American Enterprise Institute.
Count me in.
There’s The Third Camp for one. Caroline Fourest has signed, so has Taslima Nasreen, so has Terry Sanderson. I got in early. Arash Sorx did an interview with me – it’s there (scroll down) but it doesn’t seem to open.
Read the whole interview; it’s great stuff. Solidarity with the dissidents of Iran.
What exactly are we supposed to do?
I mean, avoid making asinine comments about how oppressing women is “their culture” and we “shouldn’t judge,” ok, I’m on that part. And when possible, call out people who do as jackasses.
But I guess I get the feeling that “show solidarity” is kind of an alternate version of “support the troops.” Slap a magnet on my car or something?
It is a bit nebulous, isn’t it. But there are petitions that can be signed from time to time. There are people who can be emailed. You can just spread the word, sort of thing.
It’s easy for me…I can publish people’s articles.
This is just a variation on the wingnut “selective outrage” meme. That goes: “you cannot claim to be upset by x because you didn’t say anything about y”.
Anyway, support for action is easy. Support for a position is close to worthless. In some cases, the action you are supporting is easily defined: withdraw from the West Bank, cut third-world debt, withdraw troops from Iraq, no more bombing. But what action do we want over Iran? Be nicer to women? Have more votes? Don’t be so religious? It’s not easy to get behind, is it? I mean, regardless that they are all good ends, how are we supposed to pressure those who will take action to take it?
And what do the petitions say? “We demand that Iran stops being a nasty theocracy and starts respecting human rights”? Well, yeah, okay, but I just don’t see the mullahs’ taking that on board, you know?
As for the Third Camp, it’s framed from the neocon pov. Iran is not an “Islamic terrorist” state, and “political Islam” is just Islam. I don’t think the answer to the problems Islam poses to the West is screeching Islamophobia, so I couldn’t sign that. And blanket “solidarity” with dissidents doesn’t appeal either. Different dissidents have different agendas. This kind of polar approach to geopolitics is a blind alley.
One of the biggest problems with Iran is a lack of information in the west. I used to know some Iranian guys (who’d had to leave under the lovely, cuddly Shah) who ran a fantastic deli opposite my flat in Edinburgh. They still had family back there, were in regular contact, etc,etc…
From the way they put it, most average, everyday Iranians are about as far from President AhmaDenier as you can get. They want satellite tv, technology, voting rights, no religious police,etc,etc…ok, they would still want a ‘liberal’ islamic state (oxymoron?), but it would be a start…
But that’s not the Iran that most of us ever get to see & hear about. All we get is AhmaDangerouslyunhinged, nukes, sponsoring terrorism, etc.
It’s almost as if people took Bush & Blair as being representative of everyone in their respective countries…
:-)
(I know, I know, it’s not an exact equivalent – we have some poor shadow of representative democracy, we’re mostly free to dissent,etc,etc. There. got the disclaimer in first!)
Well, I have lived in Iran for a few months and seen some terrible and some good things there. There are fantastic people as everywhere. But as fatuous as it sounds, its a totalitarian state and no-one gets to vote, or speak, for real change.
I believe that the only hope for internal change is similar to the Soviet Union – if the people with the guns lose their willingness to kill to retain the status quo. The only way that can happen is if they get disgusted with themselves.
Support of freedom and self-determination for Iranians by outsiders can contribute to that. Even a President with Alzheimers can do that much:
“General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!'”
AhmenidNutty and Shrub are equal, opposite, unhinged, and dangerous.
Both are deeply unpopular at home (Even the mullahs have told Ahmen-i-nutter to tone it down) have probably/certainly a short time left in office, both are loopy believers in non-existent “gods”, and are in charge of large armed forces.
All we can do is hope that there are enough peoploe, on both “sides” to drag them back from the brink, until both of them are removed.
Meanwhile, the Iranian regime is subject only to its own rules, and kills where it will internally and around the world. The climate of official hate is astonishing to see, and I was with good people there.
If it bothers you to call it a terrorist state because that would give the neocons comfort, call it something else. But that state, despite the goodness of many of its people, is morally capable of far greater crimes than it has bloodied its hands with so far.
A really great read, although a bit out of date now, about the “real” Iran is Mirrors of the Unseen by Jason Elliot.
What does “show solidarity” mean in this context? I don’t think it is nebulous. The column gives some indications. But to be totally explicit about it, showing solidarity in this case would include:
— Mobilizing, whether through timely petitions or demonstations, when dissidents are imprisoned, hassled, or otherwise repressed.
— Translating and publishing their work.
— Making their situations, conditions, ideas, etc. better known to a public that normally only hears that Iran is full of mullahs who want a bomb. Get articles, op eds, or whatever into the newspapers. Get progressive emigres with ties to the dissidents in Iran on the radio and TV.
— Help create support systems (at universities, left of center think tanks, etc.) so that Iranian dissidents who have to leave have alternatives beyond the National Endowment for Democracy or the American Enterprise Institute.
I agree totally with ChrisPer … however, the fact remains that we don’t want a war with Iran if we can help it, because Ahmen-i-loony may not be in charge for very long, even though the regime is so unpleasant, and stirring up a lot of trouble ….
In the mantime, I have changed two of ChrisPers’ words …. erm, err ….
Meanwhile, the current US regime is subject only to its own rules, and kills where it will internally and around the world. The climate of official hate is astonishing to see, and I was with good people there.
If it bothers you to call it a terrorist state because that would give the liberals comfort, call it something else. But that state, despite the goodness of many of its people, is morally capable of far greater crimes than it has bloodied its hands with so far.
“Meanwhile, the current US regime is subject only to its own rules, and kills where it will internally and around the world. The climate of official hate is astonishing to see, and I was with good people there.”
I don’t think this makes the point you think it does. The current US regime is entirely unable to silence its critics within the US and has, so fr killed none of them. You emphasise the difference rather than confounding it.
Don’t be silly, GT.
Thanks, Scott. I didn’t mean what you or Danny said was nebulous – I meant my comment on it was, a bit. That’s mostly because three of the four items your list are more available to people in journalism or universities or both; I was trying to think of things that everyone can do (such as your first item).
Dr Zen (although it’s pointless to ask you questions, because you don’t answer; you’re one of those: the hit and run type) –
‘As for the Third Camp, it’s framed from the neocon pov. Iran is not an “Islamic terrorist” state, and “political Islam” is just Islam.’
Those are just assertions, and the second in particular is just absurd.
‘I don’t think the answer to the problems Islam poses to the West is screeching Islamophobia’
What the hell is screeching Islamophobia? What indeed is Islamophobia? And once you’ve said what it is (not that you will; see above), what’s wrong with it?
“Those are just assertions, and the second in particular is just absurd.”
I agree that it is socially problematic to insist that non-political Islam is not islam at all but that was the postion of Islamists such as Sayyid Qutb and is now, presumably, the position of Bin Laden. A serious case can be made for it.
A serious case can be made for it and is made for it by Islamists themselves. That’s a bit circular.
Anyway Doc Zen didn’t make a case, Doc Zen just slapped down some assertions.
Erm … the US is engaged in “etraordinary rendition” is it not?
The death (supposedly suicide) of Dr Kelley here seems very suspicious to me … maybe I’m paranoid.
Maybe I was out, but not too far out.
The US has betrayed its own stated principles under the Shrub/Cheney regime, and the Persian peole are under a very oppressive and dictatorial heel.
That’s why we don’t want a (another) war …
As for islamism, well, I’m phobic about it, because of what the imposition of Shari’a means ….
“A serious case can be made for it and is made for it by Islamists themselves. That’s a bit circular.”
I meant that the serious case presented by certain Islamists is not just hot air. It makes sense and has a strong internal logic (once you accept that god wrote the Koran and then had it dictated to Mo buy Angels, the basic article of faith for every Muslim) and that is part of its appeal to young muslims. Their parents are in a weak position to argue for a non-political Islam because their position is not born out by the scriptures as Qutb has shown (and Dr Zen seems to agree). You and I might see that the obvious response is to ditch the whole shebang, but a muslimn may find that a harder thing and choose instead to get radical as the less demanding emotional cost.
I’ve snipped a little bit, and altered VERY few words – let’s see what we get ….
Once you accept that god wrote the Bible and then had it written down, the basic article of faith for every fundie, and that is part of its appeal to fundies. Their parents are in a weak position to argue for a non-political christianity because their position is not born out by the scriptures as has been shown. You and I might see that the obvious response is to ditch the whole shebang, but a fundie may find that a harder thing and choose instead to get radical as the less demanding emotional cost.
… And to try to reclaim America for christ.
“Once you accept that god wrote the Bible and then had it written down,”
But almost no Christians do accept this. It is almost impossible to accept since the Bible itself tells you it is not true, repeatedly. That is why Christianity is easier to reconcile with secularism.
“Their parents are in a weak position to argue for a non-political christianity because their position is not born out by the scriptures as has been shown. “
See above.
A very large number of USA christians, and their followers in this country DO believe this.
That the bible is “inerrant”, and/or the “word of god” and must be followed.
What do you think the “rapture-ready/rapture index” is all about?
And, let me tell you, they are scary.
“A very large number of USA christians, and their followers in this country DO believe this.”
Only a very small number of Christians believe this, even in the States, and the number is unlikely to grow much because the Bible doesn’t support the view. You tell a child that every word in the Bible is literally the word of God and he will find you out the minute he reads the Bible (how come the gospels say different things Dad?).
Evey Muslim, however, believes that the Koran is the literal word of God. It is the founding stone of the faith. If you don’t believe that, you are not a Muslim, whatever else you may be. the comparison doesn’t hold up.
John M, you’re really wrong about this – unless you have a very peculiar definition of ‘a very small number’ in mind. A very large number of Christians in the US do indeed believe exactly that.
“John M, you’re really wrong about this – unless you have a very peculiar definition of ‘a very small number’ in mind. A very large number of Christians in the US do indeed believe exactly that.”
I meant only a very small number of Christains in total. But it would be interesting to know what percentage of Christians in the US are fundamentalist. I bet it is quite a small number even there realative to the whole.
But you said “Only a very small number of Christians believe this, even in the States.”
According to Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism#Demographics
evangelicals in the US are the majority among Christians. And evangelicals are biblical literalists. It’s not a very small number or even quite a small number, it’s the majority. Unless Wikipedia is just wrong…but it has a lot of checkers…
Yes, but… there are some degrees in holding of belief on the ‘undiluted word of god’ view of the bible. In Christianity in the last hundred years there are very few people who will kill you or excommunicate you for less than perfectly fundamentalist beliefs. People notice that the world turned out to be flat, to not have corners, stuff like that. Bible students know the uncertain connections from the witnesses until the books were written, and the committees needed to decide even what books are in and what out. So what you get is a matter of form. A christian may SAY’the Word of God’ and mean the bible, but it is a little while since he accepted ‘thou shall not suffer a witch to live’ as a command.
And of course, it would be damned inconvenient, because our sisters believe witchy nonsense about crystals and our nieces believe homeopathy and study wicca…
The visitors to this site do not want war with Iran, and I doubt that any significant proportion of the right do either. However, exactly how do you support the dissidents in Iran? You can write petitions and compose newspaper articles that are sympathetic, but really! Do you think that the Mullahs give a fuck! They will just portray it as more decadent westernism.
That part of the Left that considers itself as the opponents of totalitarianism must set itself a list of priorities. What is worse, a Republican in the White House, or fascist regimes (and surely the Iranian regime can be legitimately defined as fascist) in various important parts of the world. These regimes are not only oppressing their own people but having a destructive influence beyond their borders.
The way the electoral cycle works it seems very likely that a Democrat will be in the White House in 2009. Will that mean a very different policy towards Iran? What will be the Mullahs’ policy towards the USA? Does anybody seriously think there will be any change from “Death to America”? That has been Iranian policy since 1979.
If you want to support the dissidents in Iran then disunity in the ranks of that support is not going to help. The question is, what type of approach will the Mullahs be more likely to pay attention to? The only way to impress them is to do so from a position of strength. They must be forced to understand that giving concessions on the human rights front will be their best option. If the Left in the West keeps insisting that, no matter what the Mullahs do, there are going to be no real consequences, then why should the Mullahs change their behaviour.
It seems to me that the only way to get the Left to go beyond “hand-wringing” is if there is a Democrat President. Only then will the Left be focussed enough to concentrate on giving full and effective support to any Iranian dissident movement.
A Democratic president. Democrat is a noun; the adjective is Democratic.
More to the point – it’s not just a question of the Mullahs, is it. Even if you’re right that ‘The only way to impress them is to do so from a position of strength,’ it wouldn’t do much good to ‘impress’ them and alienate the entire population of Iran in the process. Also, why not just let the people of Iran impress them from a position of strength? That would be an idea, wouldn’t it.
It’s too bad, “eagle bomber” that we can’t simply send in our spies, overthrow their government, and help impose a particularly corrupt and venal Dictator for 20 years (comparable to the lovely East German regime). That would sure show those mullahs and dirty infidels!
Although, covert action wouldn’t be as fun or profitable as “bombing” them all to smithereens from that lovely, oh so moral “position of strength” I love the smell of napalm-and defense contractor proftis-in the morning.