Brother Tariq
Tariq Ramadan says a lot of words in this piece but they don’t add up to much. He has a point about the denial of his visa, but he also says some dubious things and some unmeaning things.
There are some subjects, so it seems, about which an American citizen or permanent resident must now maintain silence. A “moderate” Muslim, in particular, should never discuss the Middle East, the suffering of the Palestinians, or the arrogance of longstanding Israeli policy. To force people to accept such limitations is not only counterproductive, but, more important, it impoverishes the open debate American society so desperately needs. In an atmosphere of perpetual fear, tongues remain tied, while those who do encourage a thoroughgoing debate are simply expelled.
Well, no. We’re not forced to accept such limitations, to put it mildly. ‘Moderate’ Muslims here are not forbidden to discuss those things, and I strongly doubt that Ramadan’s having discussed those things is the only reason his visa was denied (which is not to say that it was denied for good or sufficient reasons). Open debate is not impossible here. It is impoverished in some ways, but more by the narrowness and laziness of the major media and by market pressures than by the difficulty of open discussion of the Middle East. Tongues are not tied, and as for people who encourage thoroughgoing debate being expelled – that’s just absurd.
We must recognize that American society, like all Western societies, has changed. The diversity of its population has produced a diversity of political views with which we must come to terms, particularly with regard to the Middle East and to our relations with the countries that have an Islamic majority. Millions of Western citizens of the Muslim faith have brought a new outlook toward the world and toward Western policy.
Must we? Why must we? And in what sense? What does he mean we must ‘come to terms’ with a diversity of political views particularly with regard to our relations with the countries that have an Islamic majority? He must mean something, but he’s noticeably unspecific about it, as he is throughout the piece. If ‘come to terms with’ means something like obey or incorporate into law, I don’t necessarily want to do that. There is, for instance, a diversity of views out there about whether women should be treated equally in various contexts, or not. I don’t want a diversity of, say, laws on the subject; I want one law, that says yes women should be treated equally. The hell with diversity. I want uniformity. I want an egalitarian secular monoculture, I don’t want any fun colourful pockets of religious inequality for women and other girlish weaklings. It’s noticeable that among all the words, Ramadan never mentions women and equality or rights in the same breath – he barely mentions them at all.
For Muslims, the Prophet’s life demonstrates first and foremost the importance of love; how crucial it is that Muslims do not reduce their fellow Muslim citizens to the narrow definition of “problems” or “threats.”
Really? Really? Does that apply to women? Is it true that ‘Muslims’ (implying, I think, all Muslims) think it’s crucial not to reduce women to ‘problems’ or ‘threats’? Not to mention the unpleasant ‘their fellow Muslim citizens’ exclusivity, as if it’s fine to reduce everyone else to problems or threats.
The importance of love – for the ingroup, and perhaps only the male and straight among them. How impressive.
Great critique O.B.I think what this chap is hinting at is that as the number of moslems in the west is growing rapidly that our foreign policy should automaticly become more anti semetic,i.e.France.
France has an anti-semitic foreign policy? Whoa! The things you learn on the web!
And, Richard, I am quite sure you only started using the term “moslems” after finding out that some found it offensive…
And “the arrogance of longstanding Israeli policy – because …
For years Israel said recognise us, and we can deal..
And every time someone irrcoincilable starts up a new “kill-all-the-jews-and-extripate-Israel campaign, and I think they’ve just given up on peace.
It is worth remembering that the “moderate” Fatah (compared to say Hizbollah or Hamas) were the people behind the Munich games atrocity.
Erm ……
The claim that one cannot discuss US or Israeli policy is a red-herring set forth to avoid discussing the issue.
It’s similar to people who tell you that they want to communicate but don’t actually go beyond that theoretical claim.
If they want to discuss issue of US or Israeli policy they are free to do so. But they are not free to lie and mis-represent and maybe that is their gripe.
Right on G.T. yes to be honest I do use that spellihg to show disrespect,and you dont think that France is getting more anti semetic then i have a burned out synagough to sell you!My other misspellings are acidental by the way.
Agnes Poirier, “A Clash of Hidden Agendas”
<http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/agnes_poirier/2007/01/post_968.html>
Are you surprised that I define Tariq Ramadan as a fundamentalist Islamist? Perhaps you thought that, as an adviser to Tony Blair on multiculturalism and a visiting senior research fellow at Oxford, he represented the face of moderate Islam? Forget his reassuring manner. Read Caroline Fourest’s remarkable study of his speeches and audio cassettes in which he asks young Muslims not to mix or marry outside their religion. Or note that he thoughtfully proposed “a moratorium on the lapidation of adulterous women”. Yes, a “moratorium”.
Which would seem to be the answer to the query in your penultimate paragraph.
Dang! I enclosed the citation for my quote from Agnes Poirier in angle brackets, so the markup language ignored it as some sort of incomprehensible instruction.
Once more, unadorned:
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/agnes_poirier/2007/01/post_968.html
For your imformation I hapen to be a gentile agnostic. France has such a stellar history regarding its jewish population? tell that to the relatives of the 45 school children you delivered up to the nazis,you didnt notice your cities being torched by young moslem men a month or to ago I take it?along with synagoughs and kosher butchers shops, jewish comunity centres ect.
Sorry O.B.I have done it again. Sorry.
Come to that are the “French” jews better-itegrated into their society than in Britain?
I doubt it ……..
ah c’mon, GT…
only the BNP and associated fellow-travellers care about the Jewishness of senior politicians, business people,etc…
mind you, if yer referring to certain minority sects within Judaism, well, were they EVER going to integrate with anyone, anywhere? they don’t even integrate fully in Israel…!
:-)
Brothers Sayyid Qutb and Tariq Ramadan
As one who has followed the blog world on its views of Sayyid Qutb, your discussion of Tariq and your take on this character is interesting. You may be interested in visiting and contributing to a blog that explores the totality of Qutb and Islam in the form of considered essays.
http://anti-sayyid-qutb.blogspot.com/
Enjoy
Dave