A poll
Speaking of morality – Jean has an interesting Ethics Poll: The Talent Show. She wants more takers, so why not amble over and take it (it’s just one question).
Tip Jar
Speaking of morality – Jean has an interesting Ethics Poll: The Talent Show. She wants more takers, so why not amble over and take it (it’s just one question).
Thanks, Ophelia. Polls close in 3 days. I’m gearing up to offer an interpretation. Hmmm.
Why is that an “ethics” question? Manners, maybe, or convention. But what “ethical” issues does it raise?
Also, isn’t answer #1 obviously so no matter what else is?
It wouldn’t take my vote, but i said “I would contemplate what it would be like if everyone left after their own child’s performance, and stay.” It’s a good way to judge one’s own behavior. “What if everyone behaved this way?” IIRC, Kant had something to say on the matter.
Doug, Maybe you weren’t looking at the poll itself in the sidebar.
Jeff, The line between ethics and manners seems very faint in some cases. I do have a sense, of duty in the talent show situation. It’s not quite like eating with your hands, or the like. The question raises a question about the nature of morality…to be revealed when the poll is done.
Jean
Jean: I’ll look forward to it. I hope you’ll address whether “a sense, of duty” (I’m not sure about that comma) is the same as “a duty” or “a duty of the particular kind legitimately characterized as ethical.”
Customarily at talents, shows people/ performers wait around until the end of competitions, irrespective of circumstances such as heating problems, and boredom to see who has won the competitions. If people do decide to go home after one’s child has performed for ones own assortment of reasons – how are they then, theoretically, to know about the results of the talent shows? This I guess that does not come into the talent-show equation specified in this poll. The responsibility should be on the parents to stay, not only out of respect for the other children performing ,but also because of the examples they will be showing their own children. After all the talent show [in question] is about children displaying their talents. Therefore, it is up to the parents to display their talent under the banner of respect. No, it is benevolently not okay for the parent to leave after her/his child has performed. He/she has a duty to sit it out to the end. I would choose “other“. BTW, I have over the years sat through endless Feisanna/Ceoltas Ceoltorai Eireann [Irish dancing/singing competitions].
That sounds fun (the Irish dancing).
In our very “everyone’s a winner” style kids’ talent shows in Dallas, there are no winners at the end. So there isn’t that reason to stay.
Re: setting an example. If it’s ok to leave, then you set no bad example by leaving. If it’s not ok, then you do. So you could think setting an example is important but still choose one of the answers (besides “other”).
Maybe, though, none of answers 2-6 make respect central enough for you to choose them…though I think it’s implicit in some. Maybe it should have been more explicit.
I tried voting again this morning (sober this time), and when I click the vote button, it says “Cannot process request.”
I am a meagre tyro at this kind of thing so please bear with me if I go astray with my assessment.
“I would think I owed it to the parents who watched my child perform to stay and watch their child perform.”
Why should one think that one should unreservedly owe it to the ‘parents’ who stayed on to watch their children perform, for them to in turn reciprocate. The children here should be the central figures they are separate entities. Those, staying on whether they are adults/children should in the first and last instance take ‘them’ first into consideration as to why they should or should not stay — not the parents who are in my summation are only secondary figures . Consulting the children was not brought into the picture. Please do ignore if this does not make sense.
“I would stay or go depending on which would maximize total happiness of all concerned”
No: (6)
I go with the above. I see that I am all on my own. There is no point in staying on at the performance just to please others. It would , I think, be utterly duplicitous. If one is to the back of the mind begrudging having to stay it would make for better happiness and good vibes all round for one to depart. I certainly would not want a person gawking at me if I were as a child performing if the person was only doing it to oblige. It is false behaviour. However, if the person were happy to stay, that would be a dissimilar story. There would then be maximum happiness. Gosh, I hope that makes sense.
No, if you stay, you have to perform enthusiasm – that’s part of the package. I think you have to do both – you have to stay and you have to look thrilled and applaud like mad.
I’m bamboozled OB, Will you explain it to me a little further.
Oh that’s just my answer, M-T. Look at the comments on Jean’s post – I give some thoughts there.
I think duplicity is necessary in cases like this. It would be unkind to leave, it would also be unkind to stay and look bored. I think there’s a moral duty both to stay and to either be or pretend to be delighted by each child’s performance.
I voted with you, M-T O’L. But for different reasons – I’d want to know what older son David wanted to do. (he might be really knackered after, er, whatever ‘talent’ he might have chosen to show off – he’s only 4, after all…)
:-)
Jean ruled out a baby Matthew emergency face-saving excuse, dammit! ;-))
Good old fuzzy warm maximising happiness…love it to bits.
“I’d want to know what older son David wanted to do.”
AG, it would be is polite of you to first have the judgment of David. Nevertheless, in saying this – would David be interested in actually attending the talent show? I think it would be more than a bit sissyish if that were the case. The rugby match is on here today in Dublin between Ireland/France. Throngs of eager fathers with young teenage sons are passing by en route to Lansdowne Rd, as I sit here posting, I am reminded that a manifestation of this ilk would be more up his street as opposed to the girlie talent show.
AG: again, Oh, Crikey, I have made an awful blunder, I thought David was fourteen,- nor four years old. I am now having to save B&W face. I was too busy looking out the window. That is really nice to hear that you would look for his approval at so young an age. This is where it all begins and should always begin – at the parent(s) knees.
“I think there’s a moral duty both to stay and to either be or pretend to be delighted by each child’s performance.”
OB: That would be difficult For AG to do with a child as young as David (who might decide to bawl his head off, if he did not get his way. He could be the deciding factor for ‘mamimal happiness to all concerned’. Bear with me if this does not make sense.
Heh! If he chose to pitch a fit just because he didn’t get what he wanted, he’d find himself timed-out somewhere quietly out-the-way sharpish!
Then back to his seat (at least for a bit), just to make a point about taking a telling with good grace.
:-)
Nae Guardianistas in this house!
Oh, and MTOL (makes you sound like a type of military jet, doesn’t it?), on our last wee holiday I got David started onto the ancient & noble sport of stone-lifting, plus both he and his brother appreciate the finer points of thugby – and boy, were you guys lucky to scrape by Georgia last night!
:-))
Confessional time.
I thought about it and realised it would be unwarranted of me to say that a fourteen year old boy was a sissy just because he attended a talent show. It is not my position to be hypercritical or judgmental; some boys at that age may very well for their own reasons like talent shows.
I like ballet, and boys of fourteen and older have to train astonishingly hard for years to become ballet dancers. Therefore, I should be appreciative of that fact. There is no point in relishing the cream without giving a thought to the cream -maker.
I have off pat of once been struck by a comment of OB’s in the notes and comment section. It made me so to speak sit up. It was regarding the equality status of the adult as well as that of the child. The comment said, something to the effect that one should not take precedence over the other. I thought to myself, yeah, both the little people and the big people SHOULD always be treated the same. So in essence the parents and teachers, who are the attendees at the talent show should be treated as equally with respect. Well, this experiment poll has made me sit up again. We need to be reminded by people from time to time to sit up and take note. I am sure Miss Manners would thoroughly agree.