Resistance is not Futile
The Herald on Dawkins on religion on channel 4.
This new two-part documentary, which begins on Channel 4 tomorrow, asserts that there is no safe or defensible middle ground between science and religion, its thesis being that even the moderate followers of Islam, Judaism and Christianity are deluded, defective and potentially dangerous…It is in this capacity that Dawkins travels to various theological flashpoints…challenging a full range of beliefs and their advocates. And for an ambassador, he is not particularly diplomatic. The programme takes its cue from a statement Dawkins made immediately after September 11, 2001: “[Religion is] lethally dangerous nonsense. Let’s now stop being so damned respectful!”
Well, we’ve tried diplomacy, and what has it gotten us? Only more and louder demands. Only an ever-stronger and more entrenched sense of entitlement, to an infinite quantity of respect. So the hell with it.
While Pastor Haggard, for example, may have a point when he counter-accuses Dawkins of “intellectual arrogance” on camera, he does himself no favours by later throwing the film crew out of his Christian-industrial mega-compound.
I don’t think Pastor Haggard does have a point, as a matter of fact. I heard the soundtrack from that particular bit on Saturday Review, and it seems to me Pastor H was the arrogant one. He made a silly pronouncement about evolution – about the eye or the ear evolving ‘by accident’ – which showed he had no understanding of what he was pronouncing about. Dawkins said as much – and Haggard called him arrogant. Well how silly! How completely inane! Yet again – this kind of thing doesn’t fly in other areas, and we know it doesn’t, but as soon as people clutching prayer books turn up, all the rules change. We don’t wander into operating rooms and tell neurosurgeons that it’s really hard to believe they’re going to be able to repair the aneurism that way. We don’t stroll into the pharmacological factory and start querying the recipes. So why does Pastor Haggard think a zoologist is being ‘arrogant’ in telling him he doesn’t understand evolution? Which of them is more likely to know something of the subject? But Pastor H is a godbotherer, so it’s ‘arrogant’ to tell him he’s clueless and confused and ignorant.
Producer Alan Clements will accept credit for the original “uneasy and timely idea” of making a documentary about the apparent “rise of faith and retreat of reason in modern society”. He stands by the finished product 100%. “I think these are important films,” says Clements, “and programmes like this need to be made and watched.”…This is, then, for better or worse, a programme that lets Dawkins be Dawkins. His views, already well known, are expressed here with often electrifying clarity. He deconstructs such “fairy stories” as the assumption of the Virgin Mary with witty, angry and rigorous academic passion.
Isn’t a little clarity on this subject a welcome relief? We hear more than enough mumbling about deep piety and devout faith and pious depth and faithful devoutness – isn’t a little of the other thing useful for clearing our heads?
Dawkins describes all religious faith as “a process of non-thinking”…What, though, does he actually hope to achieve with these programmes, in this country? He must know that audiences will respond according to the polarities of their own faith or lack of it. True believers will be affronted, while the typical, liberal Channel 4 viewer will have their non-belief validated.
No, I don’t think you know that. I don’t think anyone does, or can. It’s likely that many people will be in one of those two categories, but no one knows how many people will think about what is being said, perhaps for the first time in their lives. We do sometimes change our minds about things, we do sometimes listen and hear, we do sometimes take in new ideas and new evidence, we do sometimes see things in a new light. It’s not useful to write that possibility off in advance. One never knows.
“But I think a fairly substantial number of people haven’t really given it a lot of thought, and only vaguely think of themselves as Christian. This programme just might open some eyes to the fact that you don’t have to believe this stuff, that it’s OK to be an atheist. It’s a bit like being gay 30 years ago, when it was necessary to consciously come out of the closet. I’m hoping that I may sway people in that middle category, who might be shaken into thinking about it.”
Just so. It’s not possible to tell what eyes will be opened. (Consider the massive impact Carl Sagan had with ‘Cosmos’. These things happen.)
Television, like the society from which it broadcasts, has found it expedient to display ever greater tolerance, indulgence and relativism in regard to lifestyle choices, particularly matters of faith. For this reason, Dawkins’s eminently reasonable argument may come across as almost radical in its forcefulness. “Yes it will,” he says. “Because you’re simply not allowed to attack someone’s religion. You can attack their politics or their football team, but not their faith. I think it’s very important that this should be seen as complete nonsense. Why shouldn’t people be required to defend their religion?…I think moderate religion makes the world safe for extremists, because children are trained from the cradle to think faith in itself is a good thing. So then when someone says it’s part of their faith to kill people, their actions need no further justification, and are almost respected as such.”
Exactly. We’re constantly bombarded with that silly idea that faith in itself is a good thing. How can we resist except by resisting?
There is no God. Let’s start a war because of that.
1,000 words, including evidential quotes.
Im real happy for the BBC. They are pretty awesome for putting Dawkins on the tv. The thing is, tho, I can’t help but wonder what it would take for something like that to be on american televisions?
Last week, my PBS stations showed this inane program about Genesis, where some guy drove around the Fertile Crescent to get closer to the stories of Noah and Eden. It was chock full of lines like “seeing this here makes me believe that this could have happened.” I couldn’t tell if the guy was a new-agey christian, or had the intellect of a fourth grader (ie, an 8 years-old kid.)
And, a couple weeks ago, ABC spent a whole hour in prime-time devoted to answering the pressing question – “Where is Heaven?”
What the crap is going on here?
Channel 4 actually – which is different from the BBC.
Yeah. It would never happen on US tv.
What the crap is going on here is the damn Third Great Awakening, that’s what.
What would be great is if these interesting European programs could be smuggled out of the country in DVD form and distributed to the ignorant American masses. Here in my little town, we have a public access channel managed by the city that anyone can sign up for…we currently get broadcasts of each of the church services from every podunk sect here. I’d love to put a Dawkins documentary on there!
Why is this reminding me of smuggling literature in to Soviet dissidents? I don’t know if DVD is safe enough. I’m thinking more microdots and one-time pads.
That would be a great combination. A service from Blessed Divine, Dawkins, a service from Divine Blessing. That’s some gooood watchin.
I don’t know if there is a need to smuggle anything into the states. It’s all there, out in the open for people to digest at will. The trick is getting more people to bite on a daily basis.
We’re not lacking for talking-heads and sabbath-gas-bags, but none of them ever use their many opportunities to make daring statements. Wouldn’t it be great had an American television blatherer say, in response to the Kitzmiller decision, “The Christians are fighting science because they know is helps prove their religion is a fraud?” (And not John Stewart.)
No, what we get is the radicals on the other end of the spectrum yapping about having their ‘religious freedoms’ molested.
The best we could hope for is a middle of the road Christian speaking in defense of evolution, and even they apologize for the wingnuts half the time. Yeck. It’s like the American media pretends there is no legitimate debate, just two sides of one christian coin.
“There is no God. Let’s start a war because of that.
1,000 words, including evidential quotes.
“
Russian civil war:
Lenin to Trotsky:
“You are not killing enough priests”.
It’s not that Dawkins is saying anything that’s new to people who are already familiar with him. But I’m gratified to see that the fact that his ideas are getting such a wide airing is already causing some good waves, as well as some predictably ludicrous responses:
“… I think faith has withstood his attacks.”
“These comments are meant to be inflammatory and don’t bear any relation to the facts.”
I’m sure we shall see some more interesting reactions before long.
“What the crap is going on here is the damn Third Great Awakening, that’s what.”
Or maybe we are witnessing the first glimmerings of the post-Enlightenment Emboldenment. It may be one of the few things for which we owe a debt to Osama Bin Laden.
“What suprises me is that a COMMERCIAL channel broadcast this……”
Yeah, but it has a public service remit in its licence.
Great line from the letters to the Guardian following Bunting:
“But there is an additional point: that science itself would be impossible without faith; a faith in science which cannot itself be scientifically tested without already assuming its own worth”
Another religious believer to embrace postmodernism.
Another reason to celebrate Dawkins’ programme is that it provides me with all the resources I need for my next few R.E. lessons. (For some bizarre reason they still make me teach that.)
Dawkins is often accused of being inflamatory, confrontational and apt to alienate the audience he seeks to reach, but these comments are usually taken out of context. Some of his comments are rhetorical gauntlets thrown down for the religious, but they are presented as though they are the totality of his argument.
When you consider how religion has handled opposing views over the millenia then outrage at Dawkins’ aggressive posture is rather like the school bully yelping when someone hits back.
Two very good points. I wish I were in your R.E. class, Don!
“But there is an additional point: that science itself would be impossible without faith; a faith in science which cannot itself be scientifically tested without already assuming its own worth”
…that must be from Dr Patrick Curry, the Astrology lecturer, then….
Ha, sure enough, Maya. Patrick Curry it is. Well spotted.
He goes on to say “Equally, to demand more science is a political statement, not a scientific one. Religions, like science itself, should be evaluated not on the grounds of their supposedly stand-alone truth but their fruits: do they reduce or increase suffering?”
Supposedly stand-alone truth – that’s a good sneer. Especially coming from an astrology fan.
The “Who Killed Christianity?” programme appears to be a defense of Jesus’s teachings from the likes of Paul, so maybe not Mr Tingey’s cup of tea. :) It’s on tomorrow at 9.45am.
9.30-9.45, actually.
You can listen to it here if you have Real Player.
No, I don’t think you know that. I don’t think anyone does, or can. It’s likely that many people will be in one of those two categories, but no one knows how many people will think about what is being said, perhaps for the first time in their lives…
… very true. And there might well be far more in the latter category than you might expect, if your day-to-day is more dealing with the robotic zealots that make the most noise. I’ve been very pleasantly surprised, a few times in my life, to see hints of how very reasonable a lot of people can be, if you’re just honest and direct with them about it. Being my level clearest about how very silly I think religion is, I’ve had the guy across the table who’d started out with the vague ‘oh, there’s gotta be *somethin’* out there’ mumbles end out by saying something in the realm of ‘ya know, you’re right, it doesn’t make much sense, and probably, I’ve only been telling myself I believe it out of inertia’.
But for my money, the real reason I’ve gotten to like talking that way, and the reason I like Dawkins (and damn, yeah, I do.. we gotta clone him or somethin’… 20,000 Petri-dish-Dawkinses set loose upon the televised fora of the world to counter the army of weaselly obscurantists that occupy so many of them today… ahh, to dream) isn’t even about whether it works. I just like directness. Honesty’s good. I like people who tell it like it is. Like myself better when I do, too.
A religious fanatic accusing anyone of arrogance should first remove the moat from their own eyes! Saying (as they do) that God exists no matter how unlikely it may be and then insult intelligent people by trying to convert them, is the epitomy, the very essence of arrogance!