Purpose
One or two more thoughts on theistic thinking, and the strange places it leads to.
There are a number of metaphysical ‘why’ questions one can ask. Why something rather than nothing, why this instead of something else, why order instead of chaos, why life instead of no life, why consciousness, why ‘intelligence,’ why humans. There are also a number of ways one can answer, including ‘unknown’. The kind of answer favoured by theists has to do with purpose – design, and therefore purpose. That may be the most basic point of all, at least for some of them – not the personal god, but purpose. Which is understandable. We don’t want to be like mould or dirt or Jehovah’s witnesses – something that just turns up without invitation or plan or intention or anyone thrilled to see it. We want to be here for a reason, and by ‘for a reason’ we mean the kind of reason we can recognize, as opposed to the kind of reason a cosmic law would be able to recognize if cosmic laws had minds. (See what I mean? Strange places.) At least we think we want that, but then if we think further…we may not think so any longer. Which makes one wonder if theists ever do think further, which in turn makes one wonder why they don’t, if they don’t.
Suppose we grant their premise, for the sake of argument. Okay, we’re here for a reason, we’re here for a purpose. Well, what would that be? Good governance? Art? Wisdom? Love? Peace? Mercy? Kindness? Universal happiness?
Does it seem likely? Does it even seem possible? Or, if it does – if we decide yes, that is the purpose, and we’re not there yet, we’re on the road – what of the cost? Do we want to endorse such a distant purpose at such a horrendous cost? Consider how many millions upon millions of lives are miserable and then cut short (just think for one quarter of a second of Congo, Sudan, Kashmir, Aceh) – what purpose can make that all right? Do we – in cold sober truth, without any handwaving about the ineffable and what we speculate will happen a thousand years down the road – want to endorse such a loathsome bargain? If that is the deity that theists imagine – one that causes suffering and loss to countless billions of sentient, conscious, aware, thinking, memory-rich beings for the sake of some distant ‘purpose’ – do we really want to bend the knee to it instead of reviling and disowning it? If we do, then why do we?
Theists dislike the idea of chance, contingency, brute fact; of non-purpose; but they don’t take seriously enough the real nastiness lurking in the idea of purpose. They don’t realize that non-purpose is not the worst possibility. They pretend to, but they don’t. They pretend, in interviews, to agree that the designer could be an evil demon, but they don’t actually mean it – which is quite remarkably stupid.
Errarum Humanum est. Have you noticed that when we are confronted with novelty, we don’t ask ourselves, “Does this threaten me, and if not can I take advantage of it?”
Oh,no: almost invariably we ask ourselves, “Why is this happening to me?”
I realise that my beliefs probably differ quite a lot from those of most other religious people, but I personally am deeply uncomfortable with the idea of purpose, although not quite for the reasons you describe. It’s simply that I cannot accept the idea that I am in possession of any kind of theistic absolute truth.
You’re quite right to point out that believing oneself to be in possession of a theistic absolute truth can be dangerous, because if you’re in possession of such a truth you can justify doing some pretty terrible things to other people.
“because if you’re in possession of such a truth you can justify doing some pretty terrible things to other people.”
Indeed. Or the lesser but still pretty appalling outcome of thinking whatever terrible things happen to people are a punishment. How much pain, shame, despair, grief has that bit of theistic absolute truth caused over the centuries, one wonders. A lot, one surmises.
There’s 2 kinds of why’s, or reasons–cause why’s and purpose why’s, and it’s the latter that seem to be causing all the trouble here. [‘Scuse me if there’s other kinds I missed.] The minute someone starts assuming that there is a purpose, a reason set in the future rather than something you can diagnose from the past, and that there is some kind of forward-thinking mind involved, other than our own, it gets sticky… And I’ve always found it kind of peculiar that so many people would rather have a god/power/whatchacallit that is cruel and sadistic but all-powerful and all-knowing, than one which is benign and does want the best for us, but whose powers are (currently) limited, a work in progress. Must be some kind of macho complex, or something…
Surely the only sensible answer to the questions in your opening paragraph is ‘Because if they hadn’t been the case we wouldn’t be here to ask these questions’?
I find it bizarre that many theists appear to see no problem with the idea that “purpose” is something which can be *given* to us by something outside of ourselves. In fact, many of them seem to believe that if atheism is true — and we don’t really have a cosmic, official, built-in “purpose” — then all those things we thought we found important in our lives — love, friendship, beauty, wisdom, learning — all turn out to have no purpose now after all, and thus no meaning or importance. Poor us.
Here’s a neat thought-experiment question to ask: If it turns out that God exists and made us for a reason — BUT the more we come to truly understand this reason the more bitterly disappointed and depressed we become — would our lives still have purpose?
And if this is somehow impossible, what does that say about God’s purpose and our own?
Exactly. It’s the same as the moral question – the Euthyphro thing. It’s not that we think the good is good because God says so, it’s that we think it’s good because we think it’s good, and we think God would agree. If we find God wouldn’t agree, and would actually want us to be sadists…we decide the hell with God then.
If we find God wouldn’t agree with what we consider to be basic characteristics of Goodness and wants us to be sadists — most theists would say that this Being simply cannot be God. End of story. The thought experiment which begins with “God is not good” or even “God is not good according to YOUR analysis” is unthinkable, and thus logically flawed.
Goodness or Purpose is never really anchored in God, even for theists. It’s anchored in the ability to *recognize* God. In other words, its anchored in the believer, in ourselves.
“I can live with doubt and uncertainty, I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. I don’t feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe [that is] without any purpose, which is the way it really is, so far as I can tell. It doesn’t frighten me.”
Richard Feynman, in What Do You Care What Other People Think?
“most theists would say that this Being simply cannot be God.”
And there’s the problem – that’s why it’s cheating. Heads I win tails you lose. Perfect circularity.
The odd thing is that many believers apparently have no problem with the idea that there are OTHER people who will not find God to be good — despite the fact that God is supposed to be objectively Good. God’s “objective” goodness varies with the viewer. It’s just that those other people are, you know, bad guys.
“most theists would say that this Being simply cannot be God.”
Sastra’s follow up post answere this question. reading the Bible, especially the Old Testament (but equally the new), Jehovah appears to be a monster.
Google “Jehovah Unmasked.” Interesting book by an ex-fundie (now Gnostic)
‘Google “Jehovah Unmasked.” Interesting book by an ex-fundie (now Gnostic)’
I got as far as Merritt’s “You can become yourself a Christ.”
I’m sorry: “Go Annoint Yourself”` sounds more like an insult than an imperitive
Correction:
The quote from Feynman above may be fictional. This site gives “What do YOU care what other people think?” as the source, but I can’t find it on the page listed.
This site lists it as attributed only.
Frustrating when that happens! I hate not being able to track down a quotation.
Anyway, whoever said it, it’s good.
“Goodness or Purpose is never really anchored in God, even for theists. It’s anchored in the ability to *recognize* God. In other words, its anchored in the believer, in ourselves.”
Take a look at this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9184353144432289069&q=Muslim
I loved the “I converted to Islam because Christianity wasn’t conservative enough” justification. So much for belief, so much for faith!