I refuse to be spoken to in that tone of voice
David Hadley and Chris Whiley pointed out in comments that my doubts about cartoons as a genre could be considered all wrong. Yes. Maybe I only meant bad single panel cartoons. I’m not sure.
But it was basically a side point anyway; the central point remains. No, the imaginary ‘right’ to protect religious beliefs from perceived insult and mockery does not trump the right to insult and mock religious beliefs. It’s not 1520, nor yet 1640, and people who have the good fortune not to live in theocracies get to act accordingly, let the Pope say what he will.
Munira Mirza says terrific things on the subject.
Censorship in the West bolsters the moral authority of leaders in the Middle East to censor their own citizens. Indeed, the religious leaders in Saudi Arabia and Palestine have been opportunistic in using the story as a way of galvanising support and reinforcing the view that only they can protect Muslims from victimisation. Counter to the claims of unelected ‘community leaders’, Muslims do not benefit from censorship.
And counter to the claims or implicit assumptions of supporters of unelected ‘community leaders’, too. The assumption seems to be remarkably widespread that all Muslims, and (especially, and especially mistakenly) all people who live in what are sloppily and misleadingly called ‘Muslim countries’ or ‘the Muslim world’ think with one thought about this issue. But that’s a mistaken assumption. People really ought to keep in mind that a lot of people in ‘Muslim countries’ detest theocrats and religious tyrants, detest them every bit as much as we detest people who want to order public schools to teach creationism and NASA to mention The Designer along with the Big Bang – every bit as much or perhaps a lot more, since the religious tyrants are more powerful and more violent there, and have more searching, detailed, oppressive rules to impose and enforce with beatings and stonings. So the idea that it’s kind or sympathetic or anti-racist to side with the ‘offended’ against the ‘so what if you’re offended’ could well be completely mistaken. We don’t know the stats, because there aren’t polls on the subject in theocracies, and if there were the answers wouldn’t be awfully reliable. But I know people in Pakistan, for instance, who are not at all fond of theocrats. It is my impression that such people are not at all rare.
In Denmark, large numbers of moderate Muslims have sought to oppose the stranglehold of extremist Muslim lobby groups who claim to represent them. In Arhus, they have organised counter-demonstrations. One Muslim city councillor who was involved said: ‘There is a large group of Muslims in this city who want to live in a secular society and adhere to the principle that religion is an issue between them and God and not something that should involve society.’ It turns out that those sympathetic lefty anti-racists who believe censorship will protect Muslims are actually missing the point. Many Muslims want the same freedoms as everyone else to debate, criticise and challenge their religion.
There you are. Unfortunate that so many people so readily assume the opposite.
Unsurprisingly, Hitchens also says many good things.
As well as being a small masterpiece of inarticulacy and self-abnegation, the statement from the State Department about this week’s international Muslim pogrom against the free press was also accidentally accurate. “Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images, as anti-Christian images, or any other religious belief.” Thus the hapless Sean McCormack, reading painfully slowly from what was reported as a prepared government statement. How appalling for the country of the First Amendment to be represented by such an administration. What does he mean “unacceptable”? That it should be forbidden?
Probably the same thing Jack Straw meant by his waffle. Shut up. Never mind what the First Amendment says; shut up.
Islam makes very large claims for itself…The prohibition on picturing the prophet – who was only another male mammal – is apparently absolute. So is the prohibition on pork or alcohol or, in some Muslim societies, music or dancing. Very well then, let a good Muslim abstain rigorously from all these. But if he claims the right to make me abstain as well, he offers the clearest possible warning and proof of an aggressive intent. This current uneasy coexistence is only an interlude, he seems to say. For the moment, all I can do is claim to possess absolute truth and demand absolute immunity from criticism. But in the future, you will do what I say and you will do it on pain of death.
Exactly. And that is exactly why we are so determined to say No, and so infuriated that so many people insist on not saying No, insist on submitting, instead. No – no Submission, thank you.
I refuse to be spoken to in that tone of voice, which as it happens I chance to find “offensive.” ( By the way, hasn’t the word “offensive” become really offensive lately?)
Yes, of course it has. Hitchens was the other half of the conversation when Stephen Fry did his riff on ‘offensive,’ you know.
I will not be told I can’t eat pork, and I will not respect those who burn books on a regular basis. I, too, have strong convictions and beliefs and value the Enlightenment above any priesthood or any sacred fetish-object. It is revolting to me to breathe the same air as wafts from the exhalations of the madrasahs, or the reeking fumes of the suicide-murderers, or the sermons of Billy Graham and Joseph Ratzinger. But these same principles of mine also prevent me from wreaking random violence on the nearest church, or kidnapping a Muslim at random and holding him hostage, or violating diplomatic immunity by attacking the embassy or the envoys of even the most despotic Islamic state, or making a moronic spectacle of myself threatening blood and fire to faraway individuals who may have hurt my feelings. The babyish rumor-fueled tantrums that erupt all the time, especially in the Islamic world, show yet again that faith belongs to the spoiled and selfish childhood of our species.
Exactly. Tantrums – just what I say. No doubt he got the idea from me.
[A]nother reason for condemning the idiots at Foggy Bottom is their assumption, dangerous in many ways, that the first lynch mob on the scene is actually the genuine voice of the people. There’s an insult to Islam, if you like.
Also just what I say. Very good that Hitchens listens to me so attentively.
Suppose that we all agreed to comport ourselves in order to avoid offending the believers? How could we ever be sure that we had taken enough precautions?…Is it not clear, then, that those who are determined to be “offended” will discover a provocation somewhere? We cannot possibly adjust enough to please the fanatics, and it is degrading to make the attempt…There can be no negotiation under duress or under the threat of blackmail and assassination. And civil society means that free expression trumps the emotions of anyone to whom free expression might be inconvenient. It is depressing to have to restate these obvious precepts, and it is positively outrageous that the administration should have discarded them at the very first sign of a fight.
It is depressing to have to restate these obvious precepts. It’s been a depressing week – all those upturned bellies.
Sign and Sight tranlated a small extract from a piece by Soni Mikich in the Tageszeitung:
“I am insulted. Fanatics blow up the Buddhas of Bamiyan, those wonderful cultural monuments. But art for me is an expression of universal beauty and innocence, it is a thing of value which makes the world better and more peaceful. This is the tradition in which I have grown up. I therefore demand that Hamas, the spokesman of the French Muslims and the director of the Al-Azhar university apologise to me. Otherwise I will sadly never visit the Taj Mahal on holiday, I will call for a boycott of Palestinian fruit and I will set fire to the embassies of Tunisia, Qatar and Bangladesh.”
typo: Sonia Mikich
The New Humanist blog listed some of the most popular banners on view at the London demonstration:
“Denmark: your 7/7 is on its way”
“Europe, you will see the real Holocaust soon”
“Europe, your 9/11 will come”
“Osama is on his way”
“Jewish media go to hell”
“Liberalism go to hell”
“Democracy go to hell”
“Freedom go to hell”
I’m sure we all agree that as long we don’t do anything irresponsible to offend them, these are people with whom one can come to an accomodation.
Ah – well said, Sonia Mikich.
I mean to say – I’m profoundly offended by all this woman-beating and school-burning-down because they teach girls and woman-imprisoning and all the rest of it. It’s so blindingly obvious that people who do that think all women without exception are scum – what’s not to be offended about? I want an apology in triplicate, right now.
Yeah. And that submitting to demands that we shut up is just the way to persuade them to stop making demands that we shut up. Uh huh.
I saw a bunch more pictures of the demo here: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004448.htm
Massacre, butcher, slay, exterminate, annihilate, behead…
Peaceful religion. I almost forgot.
Why aren’t the ones carrying the “Freedom go to hell” banners outraged that they haven’t been flung into a jail cell yet?
One of those moments when you have to bite your tongue and remind yourself that freedom of speech is important enough that even those bastards get to have it.
Well, this is why I’m not a free speech absolutist. I don’t think they do get to have freedom of speech to make threats. ‘Freedom go to hell’ yes, but ‘7/7 is on the way’ no. Any more than I get freedom of speech to threaten believers or arsonists or anyone else (except perhaps with arrest and trial according to law). Being offended is one thing and being frightened for one’s physical safety is quite another. That’s why I keep yipping when people refer to threatening speech or writing as ‘controversial’ or similar. The distinction is important.
Surely some of those banners must qualify as incitement to violence under existing British legislation (without any recourse to laws against religious hatred). I was curious to see whether Mark Steyn had any great insights on this. He’s filled with awe at the resourcefulness of the locals in obscure places getting hold of so many Danish flags to burn at such short notice (or maybe – my thought now – that’s the real reason for the delay since September). Best line in the piece is probably “… we should note that in the Western world ‘artists’ ‘provoke’ with the same numbing regularity as young Muslim men light up other countries’ flags.”
Well there was that BBC report that several prominent Muslims urged the arrest of the ‘7/7’ guys – I linked to it the other day – Saturday I think.
The Times report on the demo makes it pretty clear that freedom to protest freedom of speech outweighs actual freedom of speech:
‘There were sporadic clashes with passers-by over chants praising the four British-born suicide bombers who killed 52 passengers on three Underground trains and a London bus last July 7.
People who tried to snatch away what they regarded as offending placards were held back by police. Several members of the public tackled senior police officers guarding the protesters, demanding to know why they allowed banners that praised the “Magnificent 19” — the terrorists who hijacked the aircrafts used on September 11, 2001 — and others threatening further attacks on London.
The officers said that their role was to ensure public order and safety. Police had closed off main roads to allow the procession a clear route. Protesters screamed: “UK, you must pray — 7/7 is on its way.”’
God – it’s just unbelievable. ‘Two, three, many Gladys Wundowas’ – that’s what they’re saying. It’s enough to make one tear all one’s remaining hair out.
Gets worse. There’s a pdf floating around of a poor translation purporting to be the first pages of the dossier used to fan the flames (with the extra cartoons that weren’t in the paper). According to it, one of the complaints made about Denmark is that they welcomed Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Well, that does it – kill all Europeans…
The Times story is remarkable.
“Senior figures at Scotland Yard have told The Times that the priority was to maintain public order and there were fears that had officers tried to make arrests or confiscate banners there would have been violence.”
So – let’s see. They can phone up go around to chat with people who say unpleasant things about gays on radio programmes, but when it comes to posters that threaten more 7/7s – ooh, those people are violent, so they’ll just watch, thanks.
So the principle is – get tough with people who are no threat, and do nothing to interfere with people who are a threat? Because, you know, the first is so much easier and safer, and the second, erm um, well, it might be more difficult. So that’s how it works.
OB, you really think the 7/7 commentors should be arrested? Why? If someone carries a banner celebrating suicide bombers, I can see every reason to counter-demonstrate, denounce, etc., etc. — but attacking the banner carriers, no. The demonstrators were, after all, on the same wavelength as the cartoonists. The cartoonists identified Muhammed with Osama like terrorism, and so did the banners. The only difference was one of attitude, one for, one against. The free speech absolutist position, here, seems much more coherent than having the government pick and choose between one’s attitudes. Personally, I think the newspaper editor probably harbors disgusting attitudes about Muslem immigrants, but that is no reason to call the cops.
Do you think that arresting the 7/7 commentators will make an attack less likely? At least that would be a harm. But if there is no harm — and I don’t see one — there is no reason for arresting or censorship here. There are magazines published in the U.S. that glorify the KKK, slaveholding, and the like. Do you think they should be shut down?
I can see censorship – even arrest — in those cases where an individual is specified for denunciation, or if there is a specific threat made on a banner or an index card or verbally. There is a protestant minister who goes to the funerals of gay men and sets up lurid posters depicting their descent into hell. While the man is a looney, I could see the harm there. But on public events, I think the bigger danger is constraining speech.
OB, it’s called appeasement – worked wonders for Hitler in Munich in 1938.
It’s not that people have necessarily forgotten, but surely, Hitler was a fascist and, well, these people have so many supporters on the left, so how can one draw parallels?
Roger, I’ve said why: because it’s a threat. I don’t think free speech does or should cover threats. It’s not the same thing, one side for, the other against. The cartoons were not threats!
Off thread a tad, but neither is Mick Jagger a threat – nevertheless…
“ABC said the changes to the Stones’ show were made by the US National Football League (NFL) and its producers… TV censors deemed two lyrics too sexually explicit to be broadcast and they were cut from the three-song show. Start Me Up and Rough Justice were subject to censorship, while (I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction was left intact.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4684716.stm
They are multiplying.
Good one here from Muriel Gray: http://www.sundayherald.com/53959
“… if they think the UK press have done this [refrain from reprinting the cartoons] out of respect, they are so very wrong.”
Had to laugh at one of her conclusions: “What if everyone publishes? Going to kill everyone? Going to boycott goods from every European country? If only the Czech Republic would publish the cartoons then Hamas would have to boycott Semtex.”
OB, I guess I could see the 7/7 banners as a credible threat. I could see that. But, in truth, I could also see the publication of a caricature of Muhammed as a bomber exuding the same kind of menace in one of those German towns where the neo-nazis frequently attack Turks. Surely, the point at which provocation turns into menace -into an attempt to provoke a response in order to justify an attack – could be built into the publication of such a cartoon.
So, perhaps attacking governments for saying mamby pamby things about offending religious sensibilities may just be too easy. As long as governments don’t prosecute, it might be the wiser thing to say calming, religiously friendly, multi-culty things.
Roger, yes, to be sure, a caricature can in some contexts exude menace; I don’t disagree. But all the same, ‘7/7 is coming’ is an explicit threat. And it might in some sense be ‘the wiser thing’ to say religiously friendly things – but at the same time it is damaging in other senses, especially when combined with perfectly bogus mouth oaths about respecting freedom of speech. If governments start informing the citizenry that freedom of speech=something that is forbidden to offend religion, then the citizenry will imbibe a very peculiar idea of what free speech is.
ob, thinking about this, I have to say that, besides the statements by the Bush spokesman and Straw, nothing has been done — the state has pretty much fulfilled the mouth oath respecting freedom of speech. That responsible people in governments that deal with Islamic republics (and, in fact, have soldiers guarding one at the moment) mouth objections to any offense to anybody anywhere for anything seems to me pretty minor. Compared to how governments reacted to the Satanic verses and death of a princess cases in the 80s, I actually think there is a lot of progress. If you expect some government spokesman to say, I quite like a Jesus joke, myself, I think you are expecting too much.
And I say this as someone with a visceral hostility to both the Bush and Blair government.
I think you should be (moderately) optimistic, actually.
Roger, but disavowing speech is doing something. And I don’t think it’s all that minor, for the reason stated – it just backs up the already strong impression that free speech is all very well but it certainly doesn’t permit insulting religion.
I’d love to be optimistic. It is quite, quite impossible right now.
OB: “I’d love to be optimistic. It is quite, quite impossible right now.”
I’m with you, OB.
This summarises many things for me:
“‘They want to test our feelings,’ protester Mawli Abdul Qahar Abu Israra told the BBC.
‘They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and to their newspapers,’ he said.”
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4684652.stm]
The problem for people who are reasonable and rational (as all BW readers are) is that it is difficult (if not impossible) to deal with such mindless fanaticism.
I put exactly that mind-boggling quotation in the teaser to that BBC item yesterday. The irony of the two sentences is…quite striking.
Yes, it is impossible to deal with such mindless fanaticism, and it is depressing to watch it thrive and expand.
On Roger’s optimism comment, I’ll risk repeating something I think I wrote quite recently. Roger was comparing the Western reactions now favourably with the reactions then to Satanic Verses and Death of a Princess. With all due respect, even if this is true, it might not be the more important point on which to focus. The 1980s is, no matter how tough this may be for some of us to face, a generation ago. What has happened in that generation is a demographically significant rise of Muslims in the Western world. Have we already forgotten one of the big shock points of 7/7? That the bombers were homegrown? So, if the problem with Death of a Princess was with the Saudis and by the end of the decade Khomeini was able to get Muslims abroad to act on his behalf, that whole situation has since become much, much more extreme. The reaction of the West is important, to be sure, but the actions causing those reactions are no longer on the order of a diplomatic snub or the targeting of individual authors, translators or publishers. Iran’s nuclear plans are worrying in the extreme, but even if they are thwarted, the birth rate is ultimately a more potent weapon, whose facilities are never subject to snap inspections. If the extremists were smarter, they wouldn’t be giving us the warnings with which they’re currently being so obliging. No, they’d sit tight and simply take over all Europe democratically in a couple more generations. And the West is weaker in inverse proportion to the demographic strengthening of the Muslims within it. So any comparison drawn between Muslim/Western actions/reactions now and a generation ago should take into account that the balance of potential real power between the sides just isn’t what it was then; it’s become quite frighteningly worse for the West. I can absolutely sympathise with the plight of many nominal Muslims living in the West who abhor the extremism that is so loudly being trumpeted as their most public face, particularly since we know only too well that many of them are only there to escape Muslim-controlled societies. That doesn’t translate into ignoring the fact that the West is sitting on a powder keg growing within it.
P.S. In some of my reading yesterday, I was reminded of what the “peaceful religion” business is all about (claiming no expertise on Islamic teachings, mind you; this is all second-hand). The peace refers to what reigns in those areas under Islamic control, specifically, when all inhabitants are, or have become, submissive Muslims, but, to the best of my understanding, peace is not a state to be applied to any other set of circumstances. The only valid intermediate situation, it seems, between being completely under Islam or at war with it (and even that is never permitted to be a permanent state of affairs) is to be a Dar el-Sulh, which means a temporary renewable state of vassalship, paying tribute to a would-be Muslim conqueror in exchange for staving off complete invasion and conversion. In other words, you pay protection money to live your own kind of life free of violence, but it is understood not to be open-ended; the point of conquest and forced conversion will definitely come (when it is deemed expedient by the Muslim overlord). I apologise in advance if I have gotten any of the above wrong.
This piece (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=77407&d=7&m=2&y=2006), by an adjunct prof. at Johns Hopkins, which includes the question “Will the European media see wisdom is stepping back and reviewing their dangerous notion of freedom of expression?,” also includes the following two statements: “Islam abhors suicide bombings and terrorism. Increasingly Muslim leaders are condemning this openly.”
No explanation is provided for why they might not all have condemned it openly from the beginning if the first of the two statements is to be taken at face value (or does “this” refer to Islam’s abhorrence of suicide bombings and terrorism? – it’s not only the US State Dept. that has difficulty attaining clarity of expression).
Not to be obtuse or anything, but there is a long distance between being born to Muslim parents and being prepared to help jihadis take over the world. It’s an ugly racist mistake to conflate demographic change with an explicit political threat. Perhaps you realise this when you say “I can absolutely sympathise [etc]…”, but you’ve already made the most sweeping statement.
The joint is jumping: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4688466.stm
Now we’re going to have a Holocaust cartoon competition: “Hamshahri says it wants to test the boundaries of free speech, echoing the reasons European papers gave for publishing the caricatures.”
Does this mean it will also be permissible to caricature Mohammed in Iran, just as it is already possible to publish Holocaust cartoons in non-Islamic countries? Or will the speech be free only as long as it’s directed against “the enemy”?
Stewart, I agree entirely. The demon that sits on my right shoulder has often in the past few days and weeks whispered unfair generalisations in my ear [this is a metaphor, you understand, I am not mad…] Reasonable people today find ourselves ever-closer to the point at which forces beyond our control will oblige us to make ridiculous choices about who to support and who to risk victimising unjustly.
[In the normal course of events, for example, I would not cross the road to p*ss on a right-wing newspaper editor if he was on fire. But only if the fire was metaphorical. When people start risking actually being set on fire, things become different.]
What is particularly noticeable is that what is underway is an eminently macho confrontation. Perhaps we need to make more, for example, of all the ways in which it might be possible to reach out to those who have wombs, and who might prefer, if given the choice, not to have them used as weapons.
“Denmark: your 7/7 is on its way”
“Europe, you will see the real Holocaust soon”
“Europe, your 9/11 will come”
“Osama is on his way”
Each of the above can be read as a statement of opinion concerning what others might do, and has to be stretched somewhat to be read as incitement or personal intent.
“Jewish media go to hell”
“Liberalism go to hell”
“Democracy go to hell”
“Freedom go to hell”
Telling abstract concepts to go to a mythical place hardly counts as incitement, does it?
The recent verdicts concerning Nick Griffin and Mark Collett at Leeds Crown Court are unlikely to buttress the CPS’s confidence in prosecuting cases where a charitable interpretation of language leads to acquittal.
The flipside of economic boycott? The answer to Mark Steyn’s question?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/679578.html
Mike,
It was at the same demo that the placards calling to “Massacre, butcher, slay, exterminate, annihilate, behead” etc., anyone who slanders, insults etc., Islam, as I added above, were also displayed. How much more explicit can an incitement to violence be? Does it have to read like a cooking recipe (“Take three freshly kidnapped unbelievers…”)? And, come to think of it, isn’t a “call” to violence, which some of those banners were, even stronger than an “incitement”? Maybe I don’t have it right in a strictly legal sense, but it seems to me that while a figure commanding authority saying someone deserves to die is already bad enough and must, in at least some circumstances, qualify as incitement to murder, it is surely dwarfed by the same figure saying “kill him” outright.
“Denmark: your 7/7 is on its way”
“Europe, you will see the real Holocaust soon”
“Europe, your 9/11 will come”
“Osama is on his way”
Each of the above can be read as a statement of opinion concerning what others might do, and has to be stretched somewhat to be read as incitement or personal intent.
Er – no. The stretch is to read those as mere predictions. And it requires no stretch to read them as threats, and threats are also illegal, although I think not in all circumstances.
Stewart- I sympathise with your reactions although as you said we have to be careful not to generalise. On the demographic point I think that in the UK at least this is not going to be an issue. According to the 2001 census Muslims make up 2.7% of the population and the evidence seems to show that the birth- rate is converging towards that of the majority population while immigration is being increasingly restricted. Furthermore, many muslims are secularised and would not subscribe to Sharia law anyway.
On another point has anyone noticed the effortlessly bad timing of the riots in Gaza? Just when the EU was deciding whether to cut off funding to the Hamas- led PA. Wouldn’t just a little bit of restraint have been in order? Israel’s right wingers probably cannot believe their luck.
It’d certainly be nice if it didn’t become an issue. It does raise another question, though. How the hell do only the extreme bits of 2.7% of the population manage to hog so many headlines? Would I be wrong in suggesting that the government is spending a little more than 2.7% of its time dealing with these matters?
Not that long ago, if you’d shown me a Google News main page with the headline “Afghan police kill four in cartoon bloodshed,” I’d have assumed it was a fake, maybe a PR stunt for a “Roger Rabbit” sequel.
I know. I just had a similar thought while writing teaser about Afghanistan riots. I typed ‘cartoon demonstration’ for brevity (shorter than ‘demonstration over cartoons’) but then liked the double meaning. Cartoon demonstration indeed. Real blood, real death, but cartoon ‘grievance’.
It’s as if people are engaged in a giant global competition to show how petty and childish and ridiculous they can be. This crap deserves riots and bloodshed, while gang rapes and honour killings…don’t. There’s proportion for you. There’s loving care for actual living human beings as opposed to one long-dead guy who does not care what people say or draw about him.
Wait – not people. Men. That’s something the news coverage could point out but doesn’t. Just as with the Paris riots. This isn’t ‘Muslims’ or even some Muslims, it’s Muslim men.
Exactly….
Anyone think there would be mileage in composing some kind of statement of what we fundamentally see to be the issues here, and circulating it for adherence? A thin red line of Enlightenment values that we will not tolerate being obliterated in a conflict between those who would play the race card and those playing without a full deck?
I suppose I am thinking of the right to criticise power-holding institutions; the right to reject and object to discrimination; the right to live by secular and humane values; the right of men and women to be equal citizens; the right to peaceful public debate…
It strikes me that one thing that is very clear about this furore is that ‘Europe’ is not sure what it is defending. Maybe we could help?
Now is the time for manifestos, before long it may be time for Orwell to go to Spain… And given he had such a shitty time there, I’d rather we tried something else first…
Could be.
Mind you, Maryam has already done something like that. I don’t know if you saw her petition? I linked to it the other day.
I would add the right of women to be (to be seen as, to live as, to be treated as, to be) free, autonomous, adult, fully human beings. And I might make that the first or second item, since women are generally the first to get it in the neck when the zealots take over.
Missed that, where’s the link?
Must go now, perhaps will draft something tomorrow, though others are doing well at putting their individual versions across:
http://www.sundayherald.com/53959
http://www.georgeszirtes.co.uk/index.php?page=news#7a155737c0b41144097033e38d402056
For those that get this far in the comments, Peter Bowditch (http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/) has interesting comments on the cartoon afair.