Strident Shmident
Well, we’re doomed anyway. There are Pakistan’s nukes, and Iran’s potential nukes, and, Karl tells me, Saudi Arabia’s potential nukes – my head hurts. And that’s not to mention North Korea whose nukes are probably pointed directly at my desk. And never even mind all that because with that Siberian peat bog the size of Germany and France combined melting and releasing billions of tons of methane – warming will be drastically speeded up and there is nothing we can do about it. Floods, droughts, crop failures, famines, migrations of peoples, food wars…(And there’s that pandemic lurking, don’t forget that.)
So maybe it would make sense to just shrug and start eating a lot of ice cream while awaiting the end. Maybe it would. But – but who knows, maybe there will be a Miracle and the human species will turn some sort of corner and start acting as if it has a shred of sense. So maybe it’s worthwhile to keep trying to help direct traffic. Anyway it’s less boring than waiting.
Right, so what’s the first thing I heard when I turned on the radio this morning? (I wonder if I’m always going to wake up at 4 a.m. on Thursdays now. I happened to do that five weeks ago, and got such a shock when I turned on the radio that it probably imprinted a little atomic clock in my brain.) I’ll tell you what it was – a piece on the World Service about Salman Rushdie’s article in the Times about the need for a reform movement in Islam. The religion correspondent Jane Little called it ‘strident’ and then without pausing to draw breath, rushed to say ‘But we have to put it in context’ and then rushed on to explain what she meant by ‘in context’: Rushdie is ‘hardly a respected figure in the Muslim world,’ so Muslims won’t be much impressed by what he has to say, they’ll just say he’s just showing his liberal secular values.
In other words, it was disgusting, contemptible, anti-rational, hostile, slavish garbage. What does she mean ‘strident’? Read the article – what’s ‘strident’ about it? Unless you just start from the default position that religious fundamentalism is a fine thing and any kind of rational questioning of it is bad and ‘strident.’ But what is a BBC journalist doing starting from a default position like that?
And then there was the edge of contempt in her voice and choice of words – ‘Rushdie is hardly a respected figure in the Muslim world’. Meaning – what? Therefore he should shut up about ‘the Muslim world’? Because – ? Because one branch of it wants to kill him? Therefore he has no business voicing criticism of it? It’s hard not to think that’s what she’s saying. But that’s imbecilic – and submissive. Rushdie is more entitled and qualified than most people to criticise Islam, precisely because one branch of it wants to kill him – wants to (and does) shut up people who criticise it. That’s a dead giveaway that there is something badly wrong with it, and that it needs all the criticism it can get, all the more so from people with direct knowledge of its intimidation techniques. Yet Jane Little’s tone and choice of words conveyed the exact opposite. And then note the assumption that the entire ‘Muslim world’ is as obscurantist as the pro-fatwa crowd – which is pretty insulting.
Strident. Let’s hear some stridency.
However, this is the same Sacranie who, in 1989, said that “Death is perhaps too easy” for the author of “The Satanic Verses.” Tony Blair’s decision to knight him and treat him as the acceptable face of “moderate,” “traditional” Islam is either a sign of his government’s penchant for religious appeasement or a demonstration of how limited Blair’s options really are…Two weeks later his organization boycotted a Holocaust remembrance ceremony in London commemorating the liberation of Auschwitz 60 years ago. If Sir Iqbal Sacranie is the best Blair can offer in the way of a good Muslim, we have a problem.
So has Jane Little called Sacranie strident, I wonder? If not, why not? Which of the two is actually strident?
The Sacranie case illustrates the weakness of the Blair government’s strategy of relying on traditional, essentially orthodox Muslims to help eradicate Islamist radicalism. Traditional Islam is a broad church that certainly includes millions of tolerant, civilized men and women but also encompasses many whose views on women’s rights are antediluvian, who think of homosexuality as ungodly, who have little time for real freedom of expression, who routinely express anti-Semitic views and who, in the case of the Muslim diaspora, are — it has to be said — in many ways at odds with the Christian, Hindu, non-believing or Jewish cultures among which they live…What is needed is a move beyond tradition — nothing less than a reform movement to bring the core concepts of Islam into the modern age, a Muslim Reformation to combat not only the jihadist ideologues but also the dusty, stifling seminaries of the traditionalists, throwing open the windows to let in much-needed fresh air…It is high time, for starters, that Muslims were able to study the revelation of their religion as an event inside history, not supernaturally above it.
No no. Naughty. That’s strident. Saying the revelation of their religion is supernaturally above it is just perfectly normal, average, steady-state, but saying it isn’t – that’s strident.
However, few Muslims have been permitted to study their religious book in this way. The insistence that the Koranic text is the infallible, uncreated word of God renders analytical, scholarly discourse all but impossible.
That’s exactly what Irshad Manji argues, and has been saying on the BBC among other places lately. Is she strident? If she is, why does Radio 4 keep phoning her up and asking her opinion? If she’s not, why is Rushdie?
The traditionalists’ refusal of history plays right into the hands of the literalist Islamofascists, allowing them to imprison Islam in their iron certainties and unchanging absolutes. If, however, the Koran were seen as a historical document, then it would be legitimate to reinterpret it to suit the new conditions of successive new ages…Will Sir Iqbal Sacranie and his ilk agree that Islam must be modernized? That would make them part of the solution. Otherwise, they’re just the “traditional” part of the problem.
Strident, nothing. Jane Little and the World Service could do with some modernization themselves.
While I agree with your comments wholeheartedly, there is one small point of fairness to be raised. The remark, ‘Death is perhaps too easy.’ sounds as though Sacranie is suggesting a prolonged and elaborate execution. The actual quote is ‘”Death, perhaps, is a bit too easy for him? his mind must be tormented for the rest of his life unless he asks for forgiveness to Almighty Allah.”
Now, I know Sacranie is a past master at equivocation, but to me this is more the hope that Rushdie will live out his life haunted by having offended Allah. Which I imagine would not be too much of a problem.
This is not to suggest that Sacranie is other than a slippery customer, but we should at least see the whole sentence before we judge.
Fair point, Don. On the other hand, the thought is still a very ugly one, and stupid besides. Yo – there is no Allah, so there is nothing to ask for forgiveness for, and no one to ask it of. And public slavering over someone’s hoped-for lifelong mental torment – is disgusting. Less disgusting than calling for his slow execution, yes, but still disgusting.
Well, all the more reason to call the BBC on it then. Get all Enlightenment on their ass.
The BBC radio programme that bugs me most is “devout skeptics”. Each week they do a half hour interview with some “celebrity” who can’t even make up their mind whether they’re an agnostic or not. They are full of the most wishy-washy “spirituality” which seems to make them feel all superior.
It’s as if they’ve taken that “respect for all religions” thing and distilled away any actual beliefs, without noticing that different religions contradict each other.
If the varieties of Islam are to reform and modernize, that is only a long-run process that can take place from within, amidst all the conflicts of class, caste, ethnicity, etc. concommitant with it, and there is little outsiders can do to directly effect it. Certainly not by imposing unilaterally a monologic conception of Enlightenment, in place of more dialogic and historical conceptions.
No, I hadn’t heard about it either, which was Karl’s point: no one is reporting it. Peachy. Not building nukes yet, apparently, but trying hard to get Pakistan to sell it the equipment to do so (and China is sniffing around too). I so look forward to living in a world in which Pakistan (with godonlyknows who in power), Iran and Saudia Arabia have nukes. Just can’t wait.
Hey! In spite of “John’s” hieroglyphic unintelligibility: wha’ja ya’know?
John, while it is perfectly possible to write a sentence seventy words long and containing six subordinate clauses, it isn’t compulsory. It’s hard to agree with someone if you have to take a coffee break to get through a sentence.
John: Is the ‘c’ to distinguish you from the other john halasz’ around ?
;-)
I do think it is genuinely more productive to think of al qaeda and related groups as an islamic variety of fascism than as an extremist variety of islam.
In a country where political parties are allowed, fascists will form a political party. In countries, such as Egypt, the Palestinian Territories, and saudi arabia, where they are not, they will try to masquerade as a religious movement instead.
To give a non-fascist example, Hamas was to some extent funded and given various priviliges by Israel, precisely because it was thought that as a religious and cultural group it would be apolitical and non-violent. But the result was a political movement with near identical goals and tactics to the old PLO. Islamification of the movement changed practically nothing.
Can anyone identify any single action by al qaeda that was based on a religious agenda, or anything they refused to do because it was religiously prohibited?
Unfortunately, rather like the term neo-con, which once had a nice specific meaning, it does seem to be being rather confused by use as a generic term of abuse.
Perhaps Caliphate-fascist would be better. Simple test to see if an individual or group is a caliphate-fascist:
1. do they want to see an islamic caliphate come into being as a specific real-world political organisation, a nation-state with an army and borders?
2. do they see that goal as being an urgent one that justifies direct action now?
3. do they think progress towards that goal is being undermined, in hidden insidious ways, by some specific ethnic group?
soru
This would seem to be as good a place as any to draw attention to Roy Hattersley’s piece in today’s Guardian, in which he characterises critics of multi-culturalism as ‘middle-class Paki-bashing’ by people who secretly want all non-christians deported. I have an ingrained regard for Roy, but he does seem to have cast aside intellectual integrity in this straw-man article.
‘I happened to do that five weeks ago, and got such a shock when I turned on the radio that it probably imprinted a little atomic clock in my brain’
I wish you would avoid conflating atomic clocks with nuclear bombs, because they don’t operate according to the same principles. Atomic clocks measure the frequency of the radiation emitted by the electronic transition between ground states of an atom.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with nuclear fission. The isotope typically used in atomic clocks is caesium-133, which is not radioactive.
How does she conflate the two?
Yeah – that’s not what I was doing with the atomic clock metaphor. Nuclear bombs were not part of the picture at all at all.
>I have an ingrained regard for Roy [Hattersley]< It can’t surely be based on his articles in the Guardian — or on his not-very-qualified support for the Muslims in his constituency who wanted “Satanic Verses” banned. He appealed to Salman Rushie not to allow his book to be published in paperback.
It seems to me that if Rushdie thinks ‘Islamofascism’ is a useful term, he has a considerable base of experience from which to make such a judgment. I think it looks slightly ridiculous for an American who did not grow up in a Muslim family in Bombay and who has not had a fatwa pronounced on him to lecture Rushdie on the subject. No, I take that back – I think it looks very ridiculous.
I agree with John C. Halasz about the use of the term Islamofascist (though the argument against it could be expressed in about one tenth of the length). Why not just deal with the arguments without using what is effectively (as it has long come to be used) an abusive, as well as descriptive, term?
>Perhaps Caliphate-fascist would be better.< Ditto, Soru I’ve put up a number of postings critical of extremist Muslim groups on a blog that shall be nameless (Daily Ablution) without resorting to such terms. And Ophelia, I’m glad you took that back. Saved me the trouble of commenting – oops, I have.
Sorry.
The comment having nothing to do with either bombs or clocks, it looked to me like a running metaphor.
As long as you are aware of the distinction. I’m just annoyed with people mixing up fission with fusion, NMR–now sanitized to MRI–or atomic clocks. The recent ITER nonesense made me particularly sensitive.
No problem, Nick. (The atomic bit was just to convey a kind of stern precision, or inevitability.)
“though the argument against it could be expressed in about one tenth of the length”
Yes, I’m planning to delete 90% of that comment, for that reason. Thought I’d let the full excess stay for awhile first.
I should post a damn style sheet. First rule: be concise. If you want to write a book, do it somewhere else.
The annoying thing is JCH -sometimes- has something worthwhile to say, it’s just that I don’t have the time to read it all, and to untangle the tortuous prose in my head to extract the meaning. The written word shouldn’t be so difficult to understand.
Well exactly. He does sometimes have something worthwhile to say, but (pay attention, JH) he flatly refuses to say it clearly and concisely. I’ve told him to repeatedly, with what success you see. That’s inherently irritating, because ill-mannered – it assumes that people have time to waste on one person’s pointlessly long ornate posts, and that they ought to waste it that way.
P.S. This comment engine needs a preview button.
Sorry about lack of preview function. Anyway, I fixed prob.
Well, I must be Rip van Winkel. As for my name, that’s its given form, that’s how I chicken-scratch my checks on the few occasions that I issue them. As for my typing “style”, well, I’ve never claimed to be a writer, and, while I’m well aware of tortured syntax and unparagraphed density, it merely results from a slow effort to express my thoughts. Others might be more succinct or clearer, but that does nothing to prevent them from being wrong. (I’ve been re-paragraphed before, when I neglected the task or the facilities were unavailable, but not as a means of obstruction.) But I did think that the philological point about the unthought load involved in the deployment of the term “Islamofascism” and its practical implications was worth making. It might further be mentioned that the appeal to Salman Rushdie, as an authority, derives from his Islamic-Indian background, rather than from his subsequent persecution, as was presented in the initial post above,- a point which I didn’t bother to take issue with,- which point is Stanley Fishish rather than joining up with the “pro-fatwa crowd”. But, as to what I would recommend be done differently, well, as I mentioned below, to a torrent of abuse, that train left the station a long time ago. Aside from the obvious measures involved in taking out specific organizational infrastructures, engagement in dialogical and diplomatic means, which, of course, might yield untoward results, but which are all to the good, would have been the way to go. But now that we’re camapaigning for human rights in Waziristan, that’s beside the point.
Perhaps I haven’t understood Mr. Halasz, but it sounds as though he’s just saying ‘I told you so!’. Maybe he did, I don’t know since I haven’t been hanging around here that long, but that sentiment doesn’t really get us anywhere. We are where we are now. The question is, where do we go from here and how best to accomplish what we need to accomplish.
“while I’m well aware of tortured syntax and unparagraphed density, it merely results from a slow effort to express my thoughts.”
But you can then go back and make paragraphs. Do so. You could also revise the syntax and density.
“Others might be more succinct or clearer, but that does nothing to prevent them from being wrong.”
No of course it doesn’t. Not at all. Nor have I claimed it does, nor I think has anyone else. But one thing it does do is make it a lot easier to detect when people are wrong.
To return to more substantive questions –
“The only way the Al Quaeda type ideology and groupings can be fought…is to work to detach that ideology from its “base”. But precisely here, undifferentiated polemics against Islam in general, from outside of any of its auspices, and peremptory demands that its adherents comply forthwith to Western norms, (as we define them), are only likely to prove counter-productive.”
1) But I’m not talking only about al Q ideology and groupings. I’m talking about for instance inequality and discrimination against women in general. If ‘Islam in general’ favours inequality and discrimination against women, then that’s what I’m talking about. So it’s beside the point to tell me that’s not the right way to ‘fight’ al Qaeda, because that’s not what I’m trying to do.
2) You don’t really know that. You don’t know what is the only way al Q can be fought, any more than I do. You can make an informed guess on the matter, but you don’t know.
3) Western norms? Which Western norms would those be? Was Taji Satrapie motivated by ‘Western norms’ when she didn’t like being told she would be pushed against a wall, fucked, and thrown in the garbage if she didn’t wear a veil? What makes you think these are ‘Western’ norms? Try telling Maryam Namazie or Ayaan Hirsi Ali that, and see how impressed they’ll be. And ‘peremptory demands’ and ‘comply forthwith’ – that’s just silly rhetoric.
“If the varieties of Islam are to reform and modernize, that is only a long-run process that can take place from within, amidst all the conflicts of class, caste, ethnicity, etc. concommitant with it, and there is little outsiders can do to directly effect it. Certainly not by imposing unilaterally a monologic conception of Enlightenment, in place of more dialogic and historical conceptions.”
Same again. You don’t really know that, but you assert it as if it were a well-supported fact. And as for outsiders – the point is, there are plenty of insiders who are very keen to have support and solidarity from ‘outsiders,’ and who get very irritated when it is witheld on the grounds that ‘outsiders’ must not impose ‘Western norms’ on ‘other cultures.’ Publicity and noise from ‘outsiders’ are what got Mukhtaran Mai released from house arrest, to name just one example. And what is a ‘monologic conception of Enlightenment’ and who here is in a position to impose it? And what is meant by ‘more dialogic and historical conceptions’? Sounds like warmed-over Burke, to me.
In short, all that is just the usual dreary cultural relativist bollocks dressed up in pompous phrasing, and no more convincing for that.
That’s my Johnny Boy! He never disappoints.
“…it sounds as though he’s just saying ‘I told you so!’…”
No. Never. Johnny simply would not say such thing. He is completely free of ego and self-regard.
Seriously, Brian, why are you asking JCH for political guidance on such matters? Just enjoy the dazzling, neverendingflowofsoftprettywords. It’s so elegant, so intelligent. Look at him as you would at certain preachers who wrap the most gorgeous mantle of rhetoric around nothing at all.
Ask Johnny to indent? You might as well ask e. e. cummings to use capitals. Come on, creating massive blocks of dense printed material is his trademark. Besides, the Romans and the Greeks didn’t indent, so why should he?
Johhny is an artiste, do you understand? He paints sublimely eerie (or is it “eerily sublime”?) moodpieces in words. Can’t you just feel the knowingness? What, do you demand deep political insight from Gerard de Nerval or Robert Lowell? Count your blessings, ungrateful curs.
Hate the typos in my post – I would edit if I could. Sorry!
Typos fixed! Sorry about lack of editing function.
Yes, I saw that irritating polygamy article. Dear oh dear – all these pathetic people wanting to be in touch with the ‘street’ and therefore spurning people like Hirsi Ali and Manji. It’s appalling.
I haven’t heard of Fareena Alam before, thanks for the tip.
Jeez. You women just don’t get it, do you? Primitive misogynistic fundamentalist types are so much more vital and alive than you are. Do you prefer the Soul Death of your sterile technocratic Western world? Besides, Germain Greer says you Walking Dead of the West don’t know what real life is, and she should know: She’s a true woman who got back to her lunar roots. You people have sadly lost touch with The Blood and, as a result, your precious bodily fluids have been sapped and impurified. Time to get back to basics!
Ice-cream, Mandrake? Children’s ice cream?
Karl: E.g. “She’s a true woman who got back to her lunar roots”
Having read the Observer cover to cover, (but still managing to keep a sense of humour), generally looking forward to a Sunday full of loafing about, perhaps a nice walk, definitely some good food, and probably enjoying the cricket you have already made my day. I hadn’t realised before quite fully how all this makes me a soulless technocrat.
Idle infidel! Your lotus-eating days are numbered.
“Your lotus-eating days are numbered.”
That mebbe, but I’ve got Monday off too – more subversive loafing !!!
You fill your empty Godless days with meaningless frivolity to disguise your existential terror. But if you had a Sky Daddy to tell you what to do and a submissive woman to smack around, then your life would have genuine meaning and your daily existence would throb with purpose and dignity.
I throb already, but not with those things… I am lost