Whose Community, Again?
Exactly. How very seldom this kind of thing gets pointed out:
Second, the promotion of religion in public life, especially under New Labour, has not only legitimised “rotten” multiculturalism – where culture has long given way to religion, particularly if it is capable of delivering ethnic minority votes. It has also created space in institutional forums that has been exploited by communities such as the Sikhs. While the sentiments of inter-religious dialogues are noble, the result is often to stifle dissent within religions and essentialise particular traditions as representing the Sikh, Muslim, Christian or Hindu way. In a highly plural and secular society, nothing could be further from the truth.
Just exactly so. All this pious invocation of ‘community’ and ‘culture’ on every hand works to confine people within those communities who don’t necessarily want to be confined there, and to shut them up when they don’t necessarily want to be shut up.
Behzti is not an aberration. While the gaze of the establishment has been fixed on using religions to deliver peaceful outcomes, it has overlooked the serious contestations within these traditions and the implications for multiculturalism. Marginal groups, like the Southall Black Sisters, have long complained of physical abuse within minority ethnic communities; only last week a Sikh father was sentenced for plotting to kill his daughter who, according to him, had brought disgrace on the family by marrying a Jew.
The ‘serious contestations within these traditions’ – that’s what I keep saying. Community, culture, tradition, religion – all those words function to obliterate differences, refusals, dissent, desires to escape and say no and decide for onself, hopes for autonomy and self-fashioning and adult independence and equality. They are profoundly, intensely conservative, coercive, confining words, all of them; they should be hedged about with enormous suspicion and caution at the very least, instead of invoked with aggressive piety and self-righteousness by people who take themselves to be progressive.
Salman Rushdie says cogent things too, not surprisingly.
‘It has been horrifying to see the response. It is pretty terrible to hear government ministers expressing approval of the ban and failing to condemn the violence, when they should be supporting freedom of expression.’ His outburst was sparked by the refusal of Fiona Mactaggart, the home office minister, to offer support for either the theatre or the author following protests by a violent mob last weekend…Mactaggart, whose constituency of Slough has a large Sikh population, refused to condemn the mob and told Radio Four’s Today programme on Tuesday that the play would be helped by the closure.
And Rushdie goes on to make a point that had occurred to me – the Behzti riot reminded me of the BORI riot last year. Remember that? When an angry mob sacked the Bhandharkar Oriental Research Institute because an American scholar of mythology had been disrespectful of Shivaji?
Mr Rushdie, who was born in India, said that the Sikh protestors had adopted the violent tactics used by Hindu nationalists on the sub-Continent. ‘This seems to be a trend that has come from India, where extremists have attacked a number of artistic and cultural events, with very little control. Works by some of India’s most revered artists have been attacked by Shiv Sena [an extremist Hindu grouping], and now the Sikh community here are travelling down a similar path,’ he said.
Indeed. And see this article by Latha Menon on the subject, with particular regard to historians and other scholars. A number of artistic and cultural events indeed, and institutions and processes as well. Not good. Not a thing to soothe and mollify and brush away under the cozy rubric of ‘community.’ Andrew Coates wrote about this last week:
As we have seen, a majority appears to align with Islamicists against secularism. The Anglo-Saxon “left’s” views correspond to an ideology resting on three sources. The first derives from straightforward British imperialism. That is the practice of separating “communities” on religious ground. Under the Indian Raj different religious groups had the right to distinct “personal law”. That is that the profoundly unequal relations between men and women under Hindu and Islamic “law” (with the notable contradiction of Sikh rules) were eternalised in jurisprudence. At present in Canada there are serious attempts to re-establish this state of affairs. “Community leaders” (not elected but given by their status as religious figures) are recognised by the state as those who determine “their” communities’ rules.
There you are again – another one of those words or phrases that need to be treated with extreme caution and alertness, and so seldom are – ‘community leaders.’ Those community leaders who met with the Birmingham Rep to try to get them to re-write ‘Behzti’ – who made them leaders? Who agreed that they were leaders? Who appointed them, who asked them? The papers and radio never said, at least not that I saw or heard. It just always seems to be taken for granted that people who present themselves as the voice of the ‘community’ are exactly that. Especially, I’m guessing (do correct me if I’m wrong), when those people are (as they so often are) men.
Peter Tatchell had good things to say the other day too.
Whatever happened to the principles of universal human rights and international solidarity? Is it really Islamophobic to condemn the stoning of adulteresses in northern Nigeria and the arrest and torture of gay people by the PLO and the Palestinian Authority? Can we remain silent when Muslims are suffering persecution at the hands of fellow Muslims? Is Muslim-on-Muslim oppression any less worthy of our concern?
So. Community me no community, at least not until some searching questions have been asked.
Peter Tatchell usually annoys the hell out of me…
Then he goes and says something like you quoted.
The debate on unchecked multiculturalism makes for strange bedfellows.
“Whatever happened to the principles of universal human rights & international solidarity?”
Whatever, indeed.
“Is it really Islamophobic to condemn the stoning of adulteresses in northern Nigeria and the arrest and torture of gay people by the PLO and the Palestinian Authority?”
No.
“Can we remain silent when Muslims are suffering persecution at the hands of fellow Muslims?”
No.
“Is Muslim-on-Muslim oppression any less worthy of our concern?”
No.
Whatever has any of that to do with the former. As if the putatively devilishly multi-culti’s would answer “yes” to any of the latter three questions. As if it only takes posing a ridiculously stupid set of rhetorical questions to imply an adversary has forgotten about the human rights.
This type of commentary is increasingly ignorant to the fact that opposing some views of the commenter does not equal a capital sin against secular liberalism.
Oh God, what next.
And P.S., don’t be silly, JoB. ‘Capital sin’ indeed – what nonsense.
“But they in fact do remain silent when Muslims are suffering persecution at the hands of fellow Muslims,”
Do they now? Oh dear me – shoot ’em all & shut ’em up in the meantime. They’re kind of made of straw anyway, so no harm done, I guess.
Seriously, I can imagine some people have those annoying tendencies but to claim it as a quasi-necessary feature is, well, an overly convenient way of getting rid of a set of opinions.
At least, to be fair, most multi- culti types were already busying themselves a lot with the above problems before this great secular wave of indignation did a “oh those woolly faggots” on ’em (to be fair: faggots is not a word used in the wave but it’s quite possibly quite the only thing that’ll remain different from the extreme right, at the rate y’all are going overboard).
JoB
PS: yeah, nice touch, wasn’t it: capital sin
You two are just arguing past each other, because you clearly live on different planets. The one with OB on it may well be the same one as mine, containing a small but sadly visible minority of people who do in fact interpret multiculturalism as meaning that they are not entitled to challenge other people’s activities, no matter how appalling, if they wrap them in a mystique of “tradition”.
These people usually turn out to suffer from unassuageable guilt because their grandfather didn’t do enough to prevent the Amritsar massacre, in spite of the fact that he was working as an errand boy in Barnstaple at the time. As a result they are constantly giving hostages to real racists and isolationists (as well as the abusers), and this gets up the nose of people like OB and me.
JoB on the other hand has no such people to contend with on his or her planet. If I had a space ship I would like to move there. Does it have fluffy pink clouds as well?
“containing a small but sadly visible minority of people who do in fact interpret multiculturalism as meaning that they are not entitled to challenge other people’s activities”
Exactly the same world – only I refuse to take the sadly visible minority as a real benchmark for the whole. Exactly similar to me not taking the fortunately visible minority of anti-Islamic born muslims as the benchmark for muslims.
That’s all. But I’m sorry to disturb an obviously convenient pars pro toto type of analysis.
PS: fluffy pink clouds? only when these elephants turn green first
PS: One of my neighbours is Tunisian (has a daughter with Down’s syndrome), another is Turkish. I live in a city where one of three vote for extreme right – very happy they are with the unqualified statements, “from intellectuals that finally find out that we were right all along”. My son has as one of his best friends a Moroccon kid & my daughter’s first teacher wore a head scarf even in the bar discussing what had happened in the year. Fluffy pink clouds?
Life is not a few blogs that hit you in a bit of your comfort behind the PC; as my neighbour can tell you when going in for another prayer asking Allah to keep his daughter from hysterical attacks.
No, Ophelia, you like to think that as it maybe allows you to remain as you are and avoid treating me like others you dislike but we’re talking right at each other (in fact, you’re shouting).
What I said before commenting on the Mafia comment & after commenting on the is-vague commenr.
“It is (vague), if you purposely leave out “when they abide by the law.”
Whatever makes you feel happy, one would be tempted to say. Except, whatever that is maybe too much to swallow in the ens.
PS: check the bill of rights, freedom of association/religion & all that – it’s a bit off to be waving human rights around like a regular female Robespierre – with a Jacobin guard & everything – without a bit of hesitation as to what’s in it is, well, not quite compatible with what you are promoting
I don’t dislike you, JoB, I just don’t agree with you. Though I do sometimes dislike the way you argue. I mean – I’m shouting, but you call me a ‘regular female Robespierre’? I’m not sure that computes.
(Weird, the way people keep calling me names out of the French Revolution…)
The Bill of Rights, by the way, stipulates what kind of laws the US Congress can make; it’s not a general declaration of human rights.
P.S. I should answer this bit (okay, okay, never mind the line-drawing thing – I’m bad at letting arguments drop, I admit it).
“It is (vague), if you purposely leave out “when they abide by the law.”
But I’m not talking only about what’s against the law. I’m talking about, for instance, some things (customs, behavior, etc) that are not against the law, but that are nevertheless worth considering and discussing and perhaps judging and disapproving. It’s not against the law for people to teach their daughters that they are inferior, worthless, evil, sexually insatiable potential harlots. But it doesn’t follow that no one should ever say a word about such a practice. If second wave feminism (for example) had confined its attention solely to what was illegal, a lot of changes for the better would not have happened.
Again (this is the talking past bit – you never seem to take this in), I’m not talking about actually physically interfering with people’s actions, or sending the police in. I’m talking about attention, discussion, debate. This kind of thing does go on in the public realm, after all. People do express approval and disapproval of various activities of other people that are legal and private. It’s not illegal to be mean, to be rude, to be selfish; that doesn’t mean no one ever criticizes meanness or rudeness or selfishness.
Silly me, should have gone for the human rights declaration in such a US-centered environment.
As for shouting, sorry, I shouldn’t have evened the score.
You keep saying that (the last post) but you keep saying FGM as well. But neither of that was the point, the point was one of bad multi-culti’s & what they do in a land without pink fluffy clouds. Neither FGM nor talking inferiority in somebody, neither are condoned at any a signifcant level by multi-culti’s.
You run so fast in this argument that it seems like you’re talking past yourself.
If this is just about debate – would you really expect me to be so daft as to be objecting? You go way beyond that. Way.
“Neither FGM nor talking inferiority in somebody, neither are condoned at any a signifcant level by multi-culti’s.”
You don’t know that. Furthermore, it’s not true. Furthermore, I said, it’s not a question of condoning, but of discouraging discussion and criticism. If you insist on continuing this absurd wrangle, would you please stop arguing with things I haven’t said and stick to what I have said.
“If this is just about debate – would you really expect me to be so daft as to be objecting?”
I thought you might have misunderstood what I’m saying, so I tried to explain it yet again. I’m sorry, but I really don’t think you’re reading carefully. You’re ranting at me for what you think I’ve said rather than for what I have said.
“You go way beyond that. Way.”
Really. Where, exactly. Give me a quotation.
Really, JoB. Either find me a quotation, or drop this. I’m tired of it. I’ve just read my last few posts on this subject and I cannot figure out what outrageous thing you think I’ve said. I’m tired of the misogynist name-calling and the fury at who knows what, so either find some evidence or drop the subject.
Well, if you can’t figure it out – that is a pity. I know discussions with you end on these notes of being called a name caller, being reading things into things & quoting somebody not quoting enough. It’s one of a very few disadvantages you have. So let me indeed drop it; you got my drift.
Let me remember your “(Weird, the way people keep calling me names out of the French Revolution…)”, that was funny. Funny enough to make up for your forced misunderstanding.
Translation: No, I can’t find a quotation. [ed.]
England are defeated in the 1998 world cup, offended by his actions during the crucial quarter final, fans belonging to a specific ‘supporters’ club send David Beckham death threats. Fans warn the manager not to play him in further internationals or else. The manager selects him anyway; these fans band together and attempt to storm the pitch at the next game injuring the police officers holding them back. The game is called off and the stadium trashed. The FA call a meeting with the supporters clubs leaders, who cannot assure them that there will be no violence at the next game, in fact there are likely to be even more ‘protesters’ at the next game. The FA has 2 choices, drop Mr Beckham or call off all future matches. They opt to call off future games. The government, sympathising with the fans still hurt by the indignity of losing the football, refuses to condemn the actions of the rioters and even commends the FA for calling off future games. Leaders of the supporters club celebrate the victory of common sense.
This is the straw man? I agree that this is a ridiculous scenario, but something has gone wrong when death treats seem less outrageous than a play. It is not a straw man, people in this country are afraid for their lives, and considering the violence at the Rep. and the murder of Mr Van Gough they should be.