How “Hindu” is yoga after all?
Yoga is to North America what McDonalds is to India: both are foreign implants gone native. The urban and suburban landscape of the United States is dotted with neighbourhood health clubs, spas and even churches and synagogues offering yoga classes. Some 16 million Americans do some form of yoga, primarily as a part of their exercise and fitness routine. Thus, when everyday Americans talk about yoga, they mostly mean physical, or hatha yoga, involving stretches, breathing and bodily postures, or asanas. Many styles of postural yoga pioneered by India-origin teachers are thriving, including the Iyengar and Sivananada schools, the Ashtanga Vinyasa or ‘power yoga’ of Pattabhi Jois, and ‘hot yoga’ recently copyrighted by Bikram Chaudhary. The more meditational forms of yoga popularised by the disciples of Vivekananda, Sivananda and others are less popular. Americans’ preference for postural over meditational yoga is not all that unique: In India, too, hundreds of millions follow Baba Ramdev, a popular TV-yogi, who teaches a purely medicalised, asana-oriented yoga.
By and large, the US yoga industry does not hide the origins of what it teaches. On the contrary, in a country that is so young and so constantly in flux, yoga’s presumed antiquity (‘5000-year-old exercise system’, etc.) and its connections with Eastern spirituality have become part of the sales pitch. Thus, doing namastes, intoning ‘om’ and chanting Sanskrit mantras have become a part of the experience of doing yoga in America. Many yoga studios use Indian classical or kirtan music, incense, signs of om and other paraphernalia of the Subcontinent to create a suitably ‘spiritual’ ambience. Iyengar yoga schools begin their sessions with a hymn to Patanjali, the second-century composer of the Yoga Sutras, and some have even installed his murthis. This Hinduisation is not entirely decorative, either, as yoga instructors are required to study Hindu philosophy and scripture in order to get a license to teach yoga.
One would think that yoga’s immense popularity and Hinduisation would gladden the hearts of Hindu immigrants to the US. But in fact, the leading Hindu advocacy organisation in the US, the Hindu American Foundation (HAF), is not swelling with pride. On the contrary, it has recently accused the American yoga industry of ‘stealing’ yoga from Hinduism. Millions of Americans will be shocked to learn that they are committing ‘intellectual property theft’ whenever they do an asana, because they do not acknowledge their debt to ‘yoga’s mother tradition’. HAF’s co-founder and chief spokesperson, Aseem Shukla, is now exhorting his fellow Hindus to ‘take back yoga and reclaim the intellectual property of their spiritual heritage.’
The take-back-yoga campaigners are not impressed with the growing visibility of Hindu symbols and rituals in yoga and other cultural institutions in the US. They still find Hindu-phobia lurking everywhere they look. They want Americans to think of yoga, the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali and the great Vedas when they think of Hinduism, instead of the old stereotypes of caste, cows and curry. They would rather that, to paraphrase Shukla, Hinduism is linked less with ‘holy cows than Gomukhasana,’ a reference to a particularly arduous asana; less with the ‘colourful and harrowing wandering sadhus’ than with ‘the spiritual inspiration of Patanjali’. It seems that this yoga-reclamation campaign is less about yoga and more about the Indian diaspora’s strange mix of defensiveness, combined with an exaggerated sense of the excellence of the elite, Sanskritic, aspects of Hindu religion and culture.
The ‘who owns yoga’ debate gained worldwide attention in late November, when the New York Times carried a front-page feature on the issue. But the dispute started earlier this year, with a battle of blogs hosted online by the Washington Post between HAF’s Shukla and the New Age guru, Deepak Chopra. Shukla complained of the yoga establishment shunning the ‘H-word’ while making its fortunes out of Hindu ideas and practices. Chopra, who shuns the Hindu label, instead describing himself as an ‘Advaita Vedantist’, declared that Hinduism had no patent on yoga. He argued that yoga existed in ‘consciousness and consciousness alone’ much before Hinduism, just like wine and bread existed before the Jesus Christ’s Last Supper, implying that Hindus had as much claim over yoga as Christians had over bread and wine. Shukla called Chopra a ‘philosophical profiteer’ who did not honour his Hindu heritage, while Chopra accused Shukla and his foundation of Hindu-fundamentalist bias.
Neither eternal nor Vedic
This ‘debate’ is really about two equally fundamentalist views of Hindu history. The underlying objective is to draw an unbroken line connecting the 21st-century yogic postures with the nearly 2000-year-old Yoga Sutras, and tie both to the supposedly 5000-year-old Vedas. The only difference is that, for Chopra, yoga existed before Hinduism, while Shukla and HAF want to claim the entire five millennia for the glory of Hinduism. For Chopra, yoga is a part of a ‘timeless Eastern wisdom’, while for HAF, ‘Yoga and Vedas are synonymous, and are as eternal as they are contemporaneous.’
The reality is that yoga as we know it is neither ‘eternal’ nor synonymous with the Vedas or the Yoga Sutras. On the contrary, modern yoga was born in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It is a child of the Hindu Renaissance and Indian nationalism in which Western ideas about science, evolution, eugenics, health and physical fitness played as crucial a role as the ‘mother tradition’. In the massive, multi-level hybridisation that took place during this period, the spiritual aspects of yoga and tantra were rationalised, largely along the Theosophical ideas of ‘spiritual science’ introduced into India by the US-origin, India-based Theosophical Society, and internalised by Swami Vivekananda, who led the yoga renaissance.
In turn, the physical aspects of yoga were hybridised with drills, gymnastics and body-building techniques introduced from Sweden, Denmark, England and other Western countries. These innovations were creatively grafted on the Yoga Sutras – which has been correctly described by Agehananda Bharati, the Austria-born Hindu monk-mystic, as ‘the yoga canon for people who have accepted Brahmin theology’ – to create an impression of 5000 years worth of continuity where none really exists. HAF’s current insistence is thus part of a false-advertising campaign that has been going on for much of the 20th century.
Contrary to widespread impressions, the vast majority of asanas taught by modern yoga gurus are nowhere described in the ancient texts. The highly ritualistic, yagna-oriented Vedas have nothing to say about Patanjali’s quest for experiencing pure consciousness. Indeed, out of the 195 sutras that make up the Yoga Sutras, Patanjali devotes barely three short sutras to asanas. The Mahabharata mentions asanas only twice out of 900 references to yoga, and the Bhagvat Gita does not mention them at all.
There are, of course asana-centred, hatha-yoga texts. But they were authored by precisely those matted-haired, ash-smeared ‘harrowing’ sadhus that the HAF wants to banish from the Western imagination. Indeed, if any Hindu tradition can at all claim a patent on postural yoga, it is these caste-defying, ganja-smoking, sexually permissive, Shiva- and shakti-worshipping sorcerers, alchemists and Tantriks who were cowherds, potters and such. They undertook arduous physical austerities not because they sought to transcend the material world, but because they wanted magical powers (siddhis) to control their bodies and the rest of the material world.
The Mysore Palace mystery
New research has brought to light intriguing historical documents and oral histories that raise serious doubts about the “ancient” lineage of Ashatanga Vinyasa of Pattabhi Jois and Iyengar yoga. Both Jois (1915-2009) and Iyengar (b. 1918) learned yoga from T. Krishnamacharya during the years (1933 until late 1940s) when he directed a yogasala in one wing of the Jaganmohan palace of the Maharaja of Mysore, Krishnaraja Wodiyar IV (1884-1940).
The maharaja, who ruled the state and the city of Mysore from 1902 until his death, was well-known as a great promoter of Indian culture and religion, but was also a great cultural innovator who welcomed positive innovations from the West and incorporated them into his social programs. Promoting physical education was one of his passions and under his rein Mysore became the hub of physical culture revival in the country. He hired Krishnamacharya primarily to teach yoga to the young princes of the royal family, but also funded Krishnamacharya and his yoga protégés to travel all over India giving yoga demonstrations, thereby encouraging an enormous popular revival of yoga
Indeed, Mysore’s royal family had a long-standing interest in hatha yoga: Wodeyar IV’s ancestor, Mummadi Krishnaraja Wodeyar III (1799-1868), is credited with composing an exquisitely illustrated manual, titled Sritattvanidhi, which was first discovered by Norman Sjoman, a Swedish yoga student, in the mid-1980s in the library of the Mysore Palace. What is remarkable about this book is its innovative combination of hatha yoga asanas with rope exercises used by Indian wrestlers and the danda push-ups developed at the vyayamasalas, the indigenous Indian gymnasium.
Both Sjoman and Mark Singleton, a US-based scholar who has interviewed many of those associated with the Mysore Palace during its heyday in the 1930s, believe that the seeds of modern yoga lie in the innovatory style of Sritattvanidhi. Krishnamacharya – who was familiar with this text and cited it in his own books — carried on the innovation by adding a variety of western gymnastics and drills to the routines he learned from Sritattvanidhi, which had already cross-bred hatha yoga with traditional Indian wrestling and acrobatic routines.
In addition, it is well established that Krishnamacharya had full access to a Western-style gymnastics hall in the Mysore Palace which had all the usual wall ropes and other props which he began to include in his yoga routines. Sjoman has excerpted the Western gymnastics manual which was available to Krishnamacharya. Sjoman claims that many of the gymnastics techniques from that manual — for example, the corss-legged jumpback and walking the hands down a wall into a back arch — found their way into Krishnamacharya’s teachings which he passed on to Iyengar and Jois. In addition, in early years of the 20th century, an apparatus-free Swedish drill and a gymnastic routine developed by a Dane by the name of Niels Bukh (1880-1950) was introduced into India by the British and was popularized by YMCA. Singleton argues that “at least 28 of the exercises in the first edition of Bukh’s manual are strikingly similar (often identical) to yoga postures occurring in Pattabhi Jois’s Ashtanga sequence or in Iyengar’s Light on Yoga.” The link again is Krishnamacharya who Singleton calls a “major player in the modern merging of gymnastic-style asana practice and the Patanjala tradition.”
So, who owns yoga?
The shrill claims of HAF about Westerners stealing yoga ends up covering up the tremendous amount of cross-breeding and hybridization that has given birth to yoga as we know it. Indeed, cotemporary yoga is a unique example of a truly global innovation in which eastern and western practices merged to produce something that is valued and cherished all around the world.
Hinduism whether ancient, medieval or modern, has no special claims on yoga. To pretend otherwise is not only churlish, but also simply untrue.
About the Author
Meera Nanda is currently a visiting professor in history of science in the Indian Institute of Science Education and Research (Mohali), India. Her book God and globalization in India will be published in the US by Monthly Review Press in 2011.
It seems the yoga industry has the same marketing plan as the martial arts industry. They both take something with some historical record and fill it out by combining it with modern methods, then obscure the modern sources to pretend there is an extremely long and unbroken line to some ancient wisdom. It seems the veneer of cultural heritage is important when you are learning something that claims to be unique, but is anything but. Both groups like to role-play being members of another culture by wearing foreign-looking clothes and using foreign terms. There is not that much difference between, for example, American catch-wrestling and Jujitsu beyond the terminology and the clothing, but you would not know that by speaking with the majority of traditional Jujitsu instructors.
Convergent sub-cultural evolution?
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Fascinating–very informative —thanks
Great. A fine article. Thanks.
Yoga, to me, in terms of practice itself, is a way to collect oneself; attitude and behaviour, to care for the body and the naturalness of breath, to allow for absorption, with a slight focus, to dive into The Deep (as in meditation) and merge. It sure ain’t unnatural.
The theistic cultural overlay is irrelevant for me.
Yoga: a balancing, a unifying, an integration, a concilience of deep silence with the impulse to act. A yoke with which to carry both this an’ that.
Much too often in the present yoga circus I find it, for some, to become an end in itself, an’ they bend their bodies an’ backs an’ spin their heads and come home from ‘retreats’ all bruised an’ blue. (Why, oh why are most ‘yoga-mats’ too narrow … as one rolls to the sides grasping ones knees the knuckels hit the floor? Ouch!)
The History is very interesting..
So I guess there arent any references to people performing asanas in any externally-authored historical books on India? (such as Alberuni’s writings on India, or even early British writing)
What are these texts? How do these texts relate to the Mysore-origin? Ascetics have been around for a very long time.. Some of Buddha’s pals themselves were ascetics :-)
It is very pathetic to see,how truth is twisted on Yoga origin by the author.
In Bhagavat Gita,yoga is referred very clearly by the God Krishna as a distinct form of physical discipline to realise the God.God Krishna approves this one of the path for wise men.
Now, it is confirmed by the astronomers that Mahabharata war fought in 3129BC, which is as per the reference of the 2 eclipses with in the span of 15 days details in Mahabharata.
Again, excavated Harappan seals which belongs to circa 1900BC to 3300BC, clearly indicate yogic postures,hence corresponds to Mahabharata period.Besides,modern dried Saraswathi discovery exactly as per Rigveda reference also confirms the antiquity of Vedas and it concepts.
In the above historical light,simply saying Yoga is not related to Hinduism in it true form,only shows the ignorance and irresponsibility of the author to the above historical factual connection of Yoga from antiquity to Hinduism.
The real truth is,during Muslim invasion and their rule,all the Hindu libraries which have kept valuable manuscripts particularly in the North completely torched but luckily it safeguarded in the South by the Hindu kings where Muslims have little control or influence.
We come to know how those great Taxilla university and Nalanda University which are great Hindu learning centers and repository of valuable manuscripts completely annihilated by the Muslims.This are all recorded history.
I believe,honest and sincere efforts should be made by the all well connected people around the world to give due legitimacy to the ancient connection of yoga to Hinduism and it purpose of creation which revolves around ancient Hindu concepts.
shallow wisdom leads to ‘desperation of the inferior’ – author is the example.
I am not sure of the author Meera Nanda’s qualifications or wisdom in either Hindu matters or history of Yoga and sounded to me a perverted view based on some fake internet searches. If Yoga is not Hindu, the earth is flat in shape then. Yoga is the traditional prayer posture of Hindu sages. And ‘timeless eastern knowledge’ is essentially Hindu as India can be traced back as Hindu to oldest assumable pre-history. The posture of Lord Siva and His precursor Rig Vedic Rudram or Harappan Pashupati have been the same. Mulabaddhasana is the Yoga asana Pashupati is found is seals. Lost city of Dwaraka carbon-dated to be pre-Harappan era which is also mentioned in the Vedas. The orally transmitted Rigveda, the earliest of the Vedas (1500-4000 BC) mentions Yoga as the supreme meditation. From Pashupati seal of Harappa (1700-3500 BC) to The Sama Veda testimonies Yoga and sage Patanjali (200 BC) was the champion of it. Yoga is one of the six orthodox schools of Hinduism.
I am posting two tweets here that I sent out after some folks tweeted M. Nanda’s article:
(1) On yoga’s inseparability from Hinduism: http://is.gd/X8sg2c, http://is.gd/HHYcTS, http://is.gd/Xz6REB
(2) M. Nanda’s polemics deconstructed before (http://is.gd/6RrA6Y, http://is.gd/nPKoDL, http://is.gd/ceC5qc).
Readers can judge for themselves.
Ajoy, my impression is that the title of the article is misleading—the question is not how Hindu yoga in general is, but how Hindu hathayoga—by far the most popular form of yoga in the West—actually is.
Even there, the claim is not that hathayoga has no Hindu roots, e.g., that none of the asanas go back to much older Hindu yoga. The claim is only that much of hathayoga, including many of the asanas, is of relatively recent and largely Western origin, grafted onto older Hindu practices.
As I understand it, you are correct that yoga and some of the hathayoga asanas are obviously of ancient Hindu origin, but that’s consistent with what I take to be the gist of the article.
Ooops, I should also have said that on my understanding the title is misleading in that it’s not really talking about yoga in general, but what most Westerners mean by “yoga”—hathayoga largely divorced from Hindu metaphysical beliefs or particulary religious practices. Then again, that’s just a brief title, in the form of a question, and the disambiguation comes with the answer in the article. Maybe there should have been scare quotes around “yoga,” in the title, to make it clear it’s talking about what we <i>call</i> “yoga” rather than what we <i>should</i> call “yoga.”
Manas#8,
Your links are irrelevant to this particular article (they just indicate that you disagree with Meera Nanda on other issues).
Astrokid Nj #11,
Have you even read the all essays that the links are for? The links provided under point-1 are on yoga’s undeniable relationship with what is now know as Hinduism. While not necessarily being replies to this particular piece by Nanda, they debunk Nanda’s attempts in this piece to decouple yoga from Hinduism. I particularly recommend the 3rd link under point-1. The links under point-2 are responses to other pieces by Nanda and have been provided simply to show that the author’s polemics on other issues have been exposed and deconstructed before. I believe that was made clear in my original comment. But perhaps not clear enough for some.
Manas,
I didnt read ALL the links you sent out, and I missed the key one.. the #3. Lesson for you.. put the key link first.. with so much stuff, I cant magically zero in on the relevant stuff.
OK.. The article ‘Yoga Asana, the Hindu legacy’ by Sarvesh K Tiwari is indeed compelling, and mentions historical evidence for some of the asanas (Pallava temple carvings around 600AD for tadasana and vrikshasana, Mahavira’s godohanAsana, etc).
1) But then, the key thrust of this article by Meera Nanda is that many of the asanas known today were created by Krishnamacharya in the modern times. Are you disputing that?
2) The article you refer to seems to dispute the below stmt in this article.
Contrary to widespread impressions, the vast majority of asanas taught by modern yoga gurus are nowhere described in the ancient texts. The highly ritualistic, yagna-oriented Vedas have nothing to say about Patanjali’s quest for experiencing pure consciousness. Indeed, out of the 195 sutras that make up the Yoga Sutras, Patanjali devotes barely three short sutras to asanas. The Mahabharata mentions asanas only twice out of 900 references to yoga, and the Bhagvat Gita does not mention them at all.
For other readers, wikipedia leads to an interesting article with a bit more details.. such as numbers of asanas .. total today (200+), how many were found in that Mysore manual (122).
http://www.roadtrippyoga.com/The_Lineages_of_Yoga.pdf
Astrokid Nj #13,
In ur original reply 2 me u said “your links“. So, before you take the trouble of giving lessons to others, it might perhaps serve you better if next time you read before you write.
1. Krishnamacharya was a revivalist of yoga. And specifically of the Asana aspect of it. There is no evidence to establish beyond any doubt that he was a creator. I like to think of him as an older version of Swami Ramdev who has more recently (much to the chagrin of folks like M. Nanda) singularly led to a revival of yoga in India, notwithstanding the hard work of Nehru and Marx Moguls from JNU, etc.
2. At this point, I am neither disputing nor supporting the thesis that some yogAsanas may have been devised in modern periods. This is entirely probable. This needs to be thoroughly researched and presented by those without their own agendas. Whether the author of this article has any agenda or not, readers can judge for themselves after going through the articles in point-2 in my first comment. I am also loath to trusting the Eurocentrics, who have their own agendas and have set historical precedents of engineering data/history to suit their predilections (as have the Marxists). But notwithstanding any modern Asana additions, it is undeniable that yoga, be it the philosophical aspect or the Asana aspect, is firmly rooted in and has an inseparable relationship with what is now know as Hinduism. This doesn’t imply that non-dharmika adherents can’t practice yoga. In consonance w/ the inclusive tradition of Hinduism, Hindus are happy to share yoga; or any other Hindu transcendental fruit; with all humans. But their roots in and relationship with Hinduism must be acknowledged.
@Manas: Comment # 14:
I like to think of him as an older version of Swami Ramdev who has more recently (much to the chagrin of folks like M. Nanda) singularly led to a revival of yoga in India,”<
So Krishnamacharya was a fraud who made exaggerated claims about an unscientific ideology? Sounds about right.
“yoga, be it the philosophical aspect or the Asana aspect, is firmly rooted in and has an inseparable relationship with what is now know as Hinduism. ”
What is undeniable is that those who subscribe to the Hindu in-group in India have appropriated all of ancient Indian culture. I have no issue with revival of certain practices or even the invention of new ones by those who practice yoga, provided no pseudoscientific claims are made to sell it. What I do have an issue with is the claim that those ideas and philosophies which were developed over thousands of years by our ancestors who were not under any one repressive, superstition-filled religious identity, are actually the property of those who subscribe to one category of this modern idea called religion. Indian culture belongs to all Indians, not just to those who call themselves Hindus.
Ajita #15,
>>So Krishnamacharya was a fraud who made exaggerated claims about an unscientific ideology? Sounds about right.
Is yoga an “unscientific ideology“, or is it a “culture” (as u later infer), or is it both? What is your reasoning behind using the term “ideology” for yoga? Kindly elucidate your stand, and we can talk more. The benefits of yoga have been scientifically proven. There is no dearth of scholarly literature that ascertain this. Grosssman, Niemann, Raub and many others have published their research in support of yoga‘s scientifically vindicated benefits. Please don’t make outrageous irrational pontifications bereft of any veracity. It is unbecoming of someone who as I understand claims to be a rationalist.
>>Hindu in-group in India have appropriated all of ancient Indian culture.
So did Buddhists appropriate the 4-noble truths and 8-fold path [sic]? Simply because the moniker Hindu is of recent origin doesn’t imply a disjunction with its heritage prior to the coinage of that term. The label of a Hindu “religious identity” did not exist when the ideas, philosophies, practices, cultural mores, etc. were developed over many millennia, that today are identified as Hindu. But a common framework did exist. A framework which is largely identified by its exposition of many of those ideas, philosophies, practices, cultural mores, etc. in a huge canon of scriptures many of which were for a long time passed on orally. Scriptures which include the gItA, the itihAsas, purANas, AraNyakas, brAhmaNas, saMhitAs, etc. In more recent times, this framework was given the label Hindu. So, to imply appropriation is ludicrous at best and insidiously dishonest at worst.
>>Indian culture belongs to all Indians, not just to those who call themselves Hindus.
Tell that to the Muslim and Christian groups who have voraciously opposed introducing yoga into school curriculum. If I recall correctly some years back a Christian group successfully got the MP HC to stop the state govt. from introducing yoga into schools. Now why would they do that if they consider yoga to be Indian and not Hindu? I don’t believe I even need to elucidate the Roman Catholic church’s views on yoga. India is a multi-denominational society with each denomination contributing its own cultural mores. Because of a predominance of adherents of the Hindu faith in India, many people incorrectly tend to use the terms Indian and Hindu interchangeably. This is gross injustice to those religious groups who have their own distinct milieu disparate from Hindu mores. Furthermore, in this specific example of yoga, it is a distinct school within the Hindu dharmika framework. The bhagavad gItA is a veritable treatise on yoga. The upaniShads provide expositions on yoga. These are all Hindu scriptures. Now, if someone says the bhagavad gItA is actually Indian without any religious connotation (which was originally appropriated by Hindus [sic]), and hence by extension is the “cultural” heritage of Indian Muslims, Christians, etc. it goes without saying how incorrect such an inference would be. Would Christians who accept Jesus as the only savior accept kR^iShNa‘s call in the gItA for complete devotion unto him as a means for mokSha? Would Muslims accept the concepts in the upaniShads, which needless to say are fundamentally incompatible with Islamic tenets? There are countless such examples which for the sake of brevity I won’t go into. That said, there are no doubt some things which can be defined as Indian culture that is commonly shared across all religious groups. “Bollywood” and a love for cricket comes to mind. But claiming yoga as a “culture” which was supposedly appropriated by Hindus is outright ridiculous without any sort of logical or historical aegis. As I mentioned earlier, such outrageous assertions are ludicrous at best and insidiously dishonest at worst.
Aren’t these unscientific, irresponsible and outright dangerous claims?
“Is yoga an “unscientific ideology“, or is it a “culture” (as u later infer), or is it both?”
All ideologies are subsets of culture. Culture is all of learned knowledge. In any case, I did not particularly “infer” that yoga is “a culture” as you falsely infer from my comment. That just sounds awkward, doesn’t it? Yoga is not “a culture”. It is a part of Indian culture (and indeed, today it is part of the culture of many people of many different nationalities).
“The benefits of yoga have been scientifically proven.”
This sentence clearly demonstrates your ideological bent. Yoga consists of numerous forms and exercises with numerous expressions of the practice. One can only scientifically address individual exercises and practices. The benefits of some aspects of yoga may have been demonstrated scientifically. But it is a fact that there are also many studies on aspects of yoga that indicate no better results than simple stretching and relaxation. Most importantly, there are many claims made by the yogis that are demonstrably false.
“Simply because the moniker Hindu is of recent origin doesn’t imply a disjunction with its heritage prior to the coinage of that term.”
Wrong reason and misleading argument. It is not the recent origin of the label “Hindu” that is the focus of my argument. It is the concept of religion itself. Prior to the arrival of Islam and Christianity on the subcontinent there were various sects, various schools of devotees, and most importantly, various schools of philosophical thought. All ideas were scrutinized over time by these philosophers, which is marked by India’s golden eras of enlightenment. All of Indian culture was what produced the mythology of the great literary epics, the great mathematics and astronomy, the great art and literature, the great philosophy and logic and everything else. Religion as a concept was introduced as an idea by the incursion of the West. In essence, it was the introduction of one and then another sufficiently different out-group (Islam & Christianity) that led to the establishment of the modern idea called religion, were certain aspects of culture, most often the superstitious and authoritarian beliefs and rituals, are relegated to areas of personal social life that are not directly relevant to the effective functioning of society as a whole. These belief systems, protected under the subcategory of culture called religion, are treated by followers as sacrosanct and beyond question. The spirit of inquiry that permeates Indian culture should not be limited by such boundaries.
“If I recall correctly some years back a Christian group successfully got the MP HC to stop the state govt. from introducing yoga into schools. Now why would they do that if they consider yoga to be Indian and not Hindu?”
This is a non sequitur. My argument to you is that yoga is Indian. You point to some other religious group and say that they don’t think so. Who cares? I personally dislike Christianity and Islam more than I do Hinduism. But that shouldn’t stop us from scrutinizing the ideological labels that collectively defend both useful as well as harmful aspects of our culture. The true patriot is the one who understands this idea, and works to eliminate superstition and pseudoscientific ideas in order to protect his/her country form cultural stagnation.
“So, to imply appropriation is ludicrous at best and insidiously dishonest at worst.”
I have thus far provided arguments without making any personal attacks. But I guess asking the same of a Hindu apologist would be granting that such reasoned arguments are actually available on the other side of the debate.
@ Manas
You said:
Everybody has their agenda including the ones who say that they do not. That is human nature. And that is precisely why we processes like the scientific method which can arrive at the same conclusion regardless of what agenda that the person who follows the method has.
On an unrelated note, hindu apologists have become smart enough to appropriate parts of science that suits them and skepticism (“Oh, that is just western agenda”) when it doesn’t. In both cases it is science and they cannot dismiss arguments that they find unpalatable as “Eurocentric” or “Marxist”.
@Lije, #19
“Everybody has their agenda including the ones who say that they do not”
Well said, I could not agree more.
However, you then say
“And that is precisely why we [have] processes like the scientific method which can arrive at the same conclusion regardless of what agenda that the person who follows the method has”.
But I fail to see how this article relies on scientific method to draw its conclusions.
For example, look at one of the major conclusions of the article:
“Hinduism whether ancient, medieval or modern, has no special claims on yoga. To pretend otherwise is not only churlish, but also simply untrue.”
What objective scientific method was followed to draw this conclusion?
Manas and other defenders of the faith, you need to relax instead of getting your panties in a religious twist. Yoga is hardly the complex panacea that it pretends and claims to be. At best the meditation aspect is a relaxation tool for a few minutes a day and that can be done without the fanciful chants and sanskrit words. The more recent gymnastic nature of some of the moves have been plagiarized from other cultures. And its probably useful if you are a contortionist without all the divine sounding bull shit. Other than that, rolling on the floor and pretending Yoga is the best exercise is rather a big waste of time. Work with external loads if you want real efficient exercise under a no BS coach who does not instruct you in sanskrit ! There are far more efficient ways to exercise and lead a better lifestyle than this ancient sounding needlessly complex horse shit called Yoga. Charlatans like Ramdev, Bharat Thakur etc are all selling this so called deep knowledge to the credulous. Not sure why any one proud of their culture would want to defend a much hyped pop culture practice such as Yoga.
Bala #17,
I was beginning to wonder when someone would provide that foolish quote by Ramdev. Those claims by Swami Ramdev are scientifically unsubstantiated and as you said are completely irresponsible. But merely those foolish, irresponsible remarks doesn’t imply yoga can be labeled as “unscientific ideology” as has been done in this thread.
@Lije, #19
Agree with your first paragraph.
I agree that an argument cannot be dismissed solely based on someone’s alleged ideological predilections. And I never said that it should. While the predelictions must be exposed, the argument has to be examined on the merits of the evidence it presents. My point was that historically speaking, both Eurocentrics and Marxists have engineered data/history to suit their agendas (Even those at the other end of the spectrum have been alleged to have done so too). So whetever they say cannot be taken at face value. This doesn’t mean that whatever they present should be summarily dismissed w/o carefully examining its validity and weighthing their evidence. Hope that clarifies.
Ajita, #18:
All ideologies are not necessarily subsets of culture. Your assertion is a gross oversimplification. An ideology may be born out of certain cultural more but that doesn’t imply ALL ideologies are subsets of culture. In current context, what culture would you say Marxist ideology is a subset of? I agree that you didn’t specifically say that yoga is “a culture”. But your repeated assertion that yoga is a part of Indian culture is gross injustice to those religious groups in India whose theological tenets are fundamentally incompatible with the philosophy and symbolism of yoga. Which, as your remarks allude, you don’t seem to be aware of.
The scientifically unsubstantiated and irresposible claims of self-styled yogis do not imply that yoga itself can be labelled “unscientific ideology” as you had done. Moreover, I had provided specific verifiable references to certain researchers in my rebuttal to said label of yoga. You make claims in your reply without any references. In the absence of such references, what you claim can only be construed as your own personal opinion, which you are free to have.
You sidestepped my contention that what you alude to as ancient Indian culture was under a common framework. A framework which existed even without the recent label “Hindu” and without a “religious identity”. This ancient Indian culture that you aver to, as you mention, encompases a whole trapestry of traditions, values, philosophies, cultural mores, etc. This plurality however is rooted in the most ancient of the scriptures that the framework produced, the R^igveda. If you so desire, I’ll be happy to provide specific reference(s). I wholeheartedly agree that the appelataion “religion” is inapporpiate for this framework. Moreover, in this context it would be pertinent to mention that the translation of the saMskR^ita word “dharma” as “religion” by early European Indologists was a grave travesty.
Once again by calling yoga Indian you are painting all distinct denominations in India with the same brush. Lets not forget they all have their own distinct milieu disparate from dharmika (and/or Hindu) mores. Your not caring about what Christians or Muslims feel about the incompatibly of yoga (or any other Hindu dharmika transcendental fruit) w/ their religious tenets doesn’t make the incompatibility any less. You still haven’t addressed my previous pointed remarks on how the yogic treatise gItA and the expositions in the upaniShads (among others) are at extreme odds with Christian and Muslim beliefs. So, pontificating that yoga is “India culture” is no different than some organization saying all Indians are Hindu irrespective of their religious affiliation.
If you substitute the word Indian from your expression “Indian culture” by dharmika, we would be more or less speaking the same thing.
My “ludicrous… insidiously dishonest” remark was directed at your ridiculous comment on “appropriation” not you. There was no need for you to take that personally. Since you apparently have, please accept my regrets. That said, I do find your air of moral superirity quite amusing given you insinuate that anyone speaking for Hinduism is unreasonable. But then you did call yoga “unscientific ideology“. I shouldn’t be surprised. Or amused.
@Indianspark, #21:
Ramdev deserves credit simply for reviving yoga in India. Whether he deserves to be called a yogin in the true sense of the word is another matter and open to question. No doubt there are a lot of self-styled yoga “gurus” who are as fake as a three dollar bill. Your allegation of plagiarization implies you haven’t read any of the articles I posted links for in my first comment. It might serve you better if you educate yourself before you pompously pontificate. And as far as the first line of your comment goes, sounds like you have yours in your mouth. Perhaps thats why you regurgitate out of a different orifice.
LOL Manas you are the one pontificating about the deeper meaning of yoga as if it contains some great knowledge. Its all obsolete primitive thought and you are nothing but a religious apologist seeking to confuse the credulous. I read your articles with your complex sounding jargon and they are a waste of time. Btw do you practice the physical aspect of yoga or are you just a lazy slob who sits and writes pointless articles on antique thoughts and what they probably meant.
@Indianspark #26,
You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. At least I take the time and effort to elucidate mine in what you say is a waste of time. But your intemperate language and vitriolic air clearly indicates you are still using a non-facial orifice for regurgitating.
Manas, I’m curious as to what kind of scientific evidence is there for these claims (the non health ones):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga#Goal_of_yoga
If there is none, how justified is it to call yoga as “scientific”?
Lije, #28,
As far as I know none. I have heard that some American researchers have done some study on some of the spiritual aspects of yoga but as far as I know thats unpublished and so untenable. Of course traditionally, the Asanas have deep spiritual and philosophical import, but I think we can safely agree thats hardly how its practiced in sundry yoga studios in the west. Even the hugely popular Ramdev brand of yoga in India as I understand is more geared towards the Asanas without the spiritual moorings.
It is perfectly valid to say that the “goal of yoga” is scientifically unsubstantiated (or simply unscientific). If that was the original intent of those who used the expression “unscientific ideology” for yoga, then there is no debate, perhaps only a misunderstanding. Simply saying however that “yoga is unscientific” in my opinion negates the work of those researchers who have scientifically vindicated the benefits of the non-spiritual/non-philosophical aspects of yoga.
Manas no doubt you are entitled to your worthless opinion on some ancient so called knowledge which is no longer valid. And you really to brush up your biology on orifices and their use since you are so fascinated by them. Why use fancy language just say that the orifice you mean is asshole. We are all adults here. But i guess you like being sneaky.
This is the only way I talk to a religious fundie and a pseudo intellectual who uses word play and worthless research trying to confuse the credulous. I know you think you are an intellectual but I am just someone who is irreverent of your bullshit.
Manas are you part of Rajiv Malhotra’s ( Nityananda’s grandmom) troop? Just asking.
Manas,
I can’t speak for Ajita, but I too will say the same, i.e. yoga is unscientific just like how a hindu apologist would say yoga is scientific to ascribe an authoritative stance to hinduism. In the absence of an agreed upon meaning of yoga, such things will keep happening. If only people who vouch for yoga always make it explicit that they mean only the physical activities and relaxation techniques as supported by science and not the woo (claims not based on evidence) that also comes under yoga. Of course, using a different term altogether obviates the need for these kind of discussions.
Now the question for you is do people like Ramdev take care to make such distinctions? Or do they muddle the aspects supported by science with those based on woo? If they keep doing the latter, us freethinkers will keep saying that they spread nonsense.
Lije #32
Perhaps saying haThayoga instead of yoga is to some extent a way out.
Do many of the yoga “gurus” even fully understand the distinctions? I have my doubts. If they do, they should be explicit about what exactly they are teaching.
Ramdev’s foolish, irresponsible remarks should tell you something. I would suspect there is some attempt to do so. As I have said before, Ramdev deserves credit only for reviving yoga (or haThayoga rather) in India in a large scale. Notwithstanding Ramdev’s irresponsible remarks, while I can’t say for sure, I think he might actually have some knowledge of yoga. Since it seems like he knows saMskR^ita and has read the “yoga scriptures”. But it is the fake-as-a-three-dollar-bill self-styled yoga “gurus” in the west who I think are the culprits. Most of the time, they know as much about yoga as the pope about quantum physics. Some of the consummate nonsense they peddle in the name of yoga is outright puke-worthy.
Manas you admit that people peddle nonsense and quackery in the name of yoga freely. But they are no different from them writing up all sorts of nonsense to confuse the gullible about the ‘deep knowledge’ in primitive concepts and your exclusive insight into it with fanciful words. Your position is laughable.
“spiritual moorings” it seems..bah !
Manas you admit that people peddle nonsense and quackery in the name of yoga freely. But they are no different from you writing up all sorts of nonsense to confuse the gullible about the ‘deep knowledge’ in primitive concepts and your exclusive insight into it with fanciful words. Your position is laughable.
“spiritual moorings” it seems..bah !
Indianspark: After reading through this debate, I don’t see anyone writing any nonsense. Even as I personally disagree with some points made by Manas (and agree with some), I couldn’t find him “writing up all sorts of nonsense to confuse the gullible about the ‘deep knowledge’…” as you claim. Or anyone else for that matter. You are the only sore voice in this discussion. Take your trash elsewhere.
Manas: Doesn’t hatha yoga also have the “spiritual” mumbo-jumbo? Or is that raja yoga?
Interesting debate here. As an American (of Jewish upbringing) who does yoga, maybe my opinion would be of interest. The way I see it, yoga has a deep relationship with Hinduism. The asanas have meanings which tie into Hindu mythology and philosophy. So, I acknowledge those ties and thank the religion which gave this wonderful gift to the world. I have also found yoga instructors in studios coming up with their own innovations. They sometimes bake some spiritual or philosophical meaning into it connected to Hindu mythology, and sometimes they don’t. I also acknowledge the innovative contributions of these yoga instructors. Having said that, there are some other instructors who seem to propound rubbish while baking in the philosophical meaning, or simply while explaining the meanings of the major asanas. Like for example, one particular yoga teacher in a popular yoga franchisee (whose name I won’t take) in NY said that simhasana is a celebration of Durga’s lion, and is a lesson for the importance of animals. Now that is just pure nonsense. Anyone who has practiced yoga for years and has knowledge of the major asanas can tell you that simhasana is tied to the Narasimha-Prahlada episode. Thankfully the person who said that rubbish has left that yoga studio. Another instructor in a different yoga studio likes to yell at his students and intimidate them if they don’t get the asanas right. He says its simply his style of yoga. I would think the likelihood of such BS being put forth is more in the US than in India.
The true philosophical meaning of yoga is hardly realized by most people. Even I was not aware of it until I realized the symbolism behind the asanas and furthermore read the Bhagawad Gita (English translation of course). Mandala publishing has some good books that elucidate the symbolism and spiritual/philosophical ideas behind the asanas. Manas mentioned the Upanishads talk of yogic ideas, so it should be interesting to read them. Those in this forum (like Indianspark) who claim that there is no deeper philosophical meaning of yoga and its just a set of exercises sadly don’t know much about yoga. The yoga studios that I have been to for the most part emphasize the physical aspect of it but to deny the philosophical aspect is highly uninformed.
Ravi, if I may answer your question, hatha yoga generally refers to the physical practice of yoga. Raja yoga is more to do with the meditative practices.
I like what Ajita says about the futility of religious labels. As someone who doesn’t identify himself with any religion despite my Jewish upbringing, it appeals to me. Of course using this logic to deny credit where its due would be unfair.
Ravi thats because you have not read the links Manas posted which he has been asking everyone to read. So do your homework before you defend Manas nonsense. Sorry to hurt your sensibilities but thats the way I talk to Manas and other such sneaky religious apologists.
David I like dealing with objective reality and all this mental masturbation and fancy language about the deeper meaning of yoga is a waste of time . Even the BG is primitive thought of ancient people trying to make sense of the world and various interpretations from ancient languages. Its not science and does not deserve any credibility.
@David, #37
Thanks for sharing your experience in this forum.
Can I ask you “What is the true philosophical meaning” of Yoga?
Although the real answer to this question may be more involved and may require extensive reading, I am interested to know your take on it.
Indianspark: In your comment #35, you accuse Manas of writing what you claim to be “nonsense” about “primitive concepts” (meaning yoga I presume). But now (comment #38) you are saying its actually the articles that he has posted links for. I have actually read all those articles and none of the ones on yoga are authored by him. Even the one article he has written and he has linked to doesn’t deal with the spiritual mumbo-jumbo in yoga, and is on some other topics rather than yoga specifically. After your latest outburst, I have no doubt you haven’t read any of those articles. LOL!. Here, let me lay it down for you: Of all the links provided the first 3 have to do with yoga. The 1st link is simply a post by one Sandeep where he outlines how yoga is related to Hinduism through scriptural (primarily) and historical links. The 2nd and 3rd links are very scholarly articles by one Sarvesh Tiwari which deal with the history of yoga, the history of asanas within yoga and reflects on yoga in Sanskrit classics within Hinduism. None of those articles eulogize what you call “deep knowledge”. I am thankful to Manas for posting those links. Particularly the links to the articles by Sarvesh Tiwari. They are extremely informative, and provide an important historical perspective for yoga as well as yogasana. You calling those articles “nonsense” provides a nice insight into how much sense you are capable of. I am not here to defend anyone be it Manas or someone else. In fact, I disagree with some of his points and agree with some other of his points. But your bile has ruined this debate, since it seems like Manas, Ajita, Lije are not participating any more. Your despicable behaviour is that of a troll. Since you don’t know know how to behave in a public forum keep away from it and let sane people debate.
David: Thanks for sharing your experiences and thanks for that note. In light of what you said, hatha yoga does seem to be the term to use to prevent people from making unscientific claims about yoga. While personally I don’t buy all that “spiritual” hocus-focus in yoga, I do respect your opinion on what you call the philosophical/spiritual meaning of yoga. Hatha yoga definitely has proven benefits based on personal experiences of some friends who practice hatha yoga (as I now know, thanks to you). Interestingly, they just say yoga and not hatha yoga.
Madhu, the true philosophical meaning of yoga (in my opinion) can be summed up in one word: duty. How you interpret this duty is up to each individual. My interpretation is in doing my duty towards my family, my job, my friends without being attached to thoughts about results. Of course, this is a very simplistic interpretation and as you said, “the real answer to this question may be more involved and may require extensive reading”. The real beauty is that there is no authoritarianism involved here as it inevitably is in relatively recent organized religions which arose outside India. I could spend quite some time and words writing about the philosophical import of yoga, even in the context of my personal interpretation, but this thread has now degenerated due to one individual who likes to throw innuendos at those who doesn’t share his/her viewpoint. And that too without really reading or understanding anything as another reader Ravi has pointed out. Thank you for your interest.
“The highly ritualistic, yagna-oriented Vedas have nothing to say about Patanjali’s quest for experiencing pure consciousness.”
Most of the translations of the Vedas, specially by Max Muller and later the internet versions of Griffin are shoddy at best, and ridiculous at worst. The language of the Vedas is pre classical sanskrit, and allegorical in nature. These ‘scholars’ were not even well versed in classical sanskrit, what would they decode of the pre classical? Read Aurobindo’s hymns of the fire to get a basic hang of things. The Yagya it speaks of is as much internal – like yoga – as it is external.
The claim that Krishnamacharya is the originator of Yoga as it stands is also flawed, and deeply. There are plenty of paramaparas initiated by Goraksha Nath which speaks in details about the various yogic postures. This is from where Hath Yoga came into being. Goraksha even defined the etymology of why the term Hatha is used.
Obviously, agenda driven ‘scholarship’ will conveniently ignore the obvious facts.
lol at these clowns Ajita, Leija, “IndianSpark”.
Yoga is not “Indian culture” numbnuts, Muslims and Christians in India don’t have anything to do with it.
Yoga including Asanas is extremely old as shown by the article of Sarvesh.
Meera Nanda’s ignorant prattle stands exposed for what it is once you read the Sarvesh’s article.
There have been numerous Neuroscience studies on Yoga and its benefits, just because you can’t be bothered to read any science journal doesn’t mean Yoga is a “hoax” as some idiot claimed.
Saying Yoga doesn’t have much to do with Hindus is like saying the real Olympics don’t have much to do with Greeks (not the modern joke but the true Olympics which were held in honor of Zeus and were an offering of piety as pointed out by Sarvesh, that was why the Greeks were able to hold them uninterrupted for over 1200 years even as Xerxes army was burning Athens until Christians banned them. Compare that to the modern vulgar “secular” joke which weren’t held during both world wars).
Krishnamacharya learned asanas from the Patanjali Yoga sutras. There is no doubt about that. Pranayama is mentioned in chapter 4 of the Bhagavad Gita (4.29) and the word AsanA itself used in the Gita! (Ch 6 v 11) What a joke this woman is! I think her mission is to end Hinduism through spreading misconceptions and strawman arguments, but for every one of these pseudo-intellectuals out there, there are a dozen educated scholars of ancient Indian relgion. Sorry Meera, nice try though.
It’s quite a worn out trick so popular among Evangelistic European reductionists ( and their employees like M. Nanda ) to either reduce Hindu contributions or to the extent that it cannot be reduced – hijack it. Scriptures could be reduced to the status of mere fables or poetic imagination having no serious content or merit but Yoga cannot be reduced especially as it has proven health benefits and is eagerly embraced by the modern west ( from where M. Nanda gets her pay cheque ) – so the next best option is to hijack it – denying credit where it is due.
Interestingly hijack attempts are limited just to Hatha yoga and other branches of Yoga like Karma, Bhakhti etc are not attacked. So at least these branches remain with Hindus and the Hatha yoga which is the most visible format becomes a target for attack.
I think Americans are too stupid to come up with yoga. I mean, everyone knows it’s Hindu. EVERYONE.
How Hindu is Yoga? Real Yoga is Hindu. Phony Yoga is, of course, not Hindu. Interestingly the phony prevails.
The Hatha Yoga Pradipika, the oldest widely accepted text on yoga was written in the 15th century. The asanas in it are mainly seated poses that prepare the body for meditation. Current Vinyasa yoga and Ashtanga yoga were deeply influenced by “Primitive Gymnastics” by Niels Bukh from Denmark. Read Mark Singleton’s book “Yoga Body” There are no poses like “down dog” and “warrior” in the ancient texts. Yoga as we know it in the west is an excellent tool for wellness. Some of it is old, some of it is much younger. Krishnamacharya (teacher of Patthabi Jois and B.K.S. Iyengar) adapted his asana to the needs of whoever he was working with. If something works for you…makes you healthier, nicer, kinder, more alive…then do it. If it doesn’t, then don’t. Older doesn’t mean better.
To all the viewers
If you are doing Yoga are you are following Hinduism.
1. The supreme lord of Hinduism Shiva is a yogi.
2. Yoga is a Sanskrit word, so obviously it is hindus.
2. Yoga has been mentioned in Hindu religious texts not in Quran or Bible.
3. Hindus have to do Yoga as per their religion. Surya namaskar to the god of Sun is just of the yogic exercise to pray to the god of sun.
4. Bhagavad Gita is the most important religious text to Hindus. In other words it is like Quran for muslims and Bible for Christians. So anything mentioned in it is simply religious not a form of exercise.
Bhagavad Gita[edit]
Krishna narrating the Gita to Arjuna.
Main article: Bhagavad Gita
The Bhagavad Gita (‘Song of the Lord’), uses the term “yoga” extensively in a variety of ways. In addition to an entire chapter (ch. 6) dedicated to traditional yoga practice, including meditation,[97] it introduces three prominent types of yoga:[note 14]
Karma yoga: The yoga of action.[note 15]
Bhakti yoga: The yoga of devotion.[note 16]
Jnana yoga: The yoga of knowledge.[note 17]
In Chapter 2 of the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna explains to Arjuna about the essence of yoga as practiced in daily lives:
So if you want to tell me that yoga is not a concept of hinduism then please you are just fooling yourself.
Bullshit. Maybe it was Krishnamacharya or some contemporary gymnast who composed hatha yoga pradipika or gheranda samhita. People should learn a little more about a subject before trying to write articales on it.
Yoga and Meditation is central part of Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism. Those were never part of Abrahamic Religion.s Those words and practices never existed in Abragamic Religions. Even using numerical system makes you a Hindu as those system were developed specifically to address spiritual concepts in Hinduism and Jainism specially ages and cosmology.
Main problem in the west is that there is still underlying belief that nothing good can come from India. European gives credit to muslims translators who translated Indian, Greek and Roman books rather than the original authors and that has been going on from several years in their school syllabus.
Hinduism and Jainism are developed by yogi/yoginī /sages. They worship God/Goddess/Trithankars in yogic positions. Christians have never worshiped Jesus in any yogic position. Jesus, Muhammed, Noah etc never practiced Yoga. Now compare that to Hindus, Jains, Buddhism and their GOD/GODDESS/Trithankars/Buddha, you get a different picture.
The argument present here is, I believe in Jesus Christ and follow his saying but that doesnt make me a Christian. I believe in Muhammed and follow his teachings but that shouldnt make me Muslims. For me those are just conflicting and ridiculous agruments.
So the question should be why people who do Yoga dont want to call themselves then Hindu? Reason is Abrahamic Religion associate religion and morality with reading and authority of one central book like Bible, Quran etc and believing in one and only GOD rather than physical practices. Now compare that to Hinduism in which believing in one God, many Gods, can create your own God, no God all means same is quite confusing to outsiders. That makes conversion to Hinduism impossible as it allows person to define its own religious, morality and God boundaries. That is just to much love, freedom and Chaos for Abrahamic Religions practitioners. Believing in one and only GOD is against Hinduism as that leads to violence and destruction.
Simple Concept that Worshiping of a God is just a reflection of ones identity has no place in Christianity
Another reason is the misconception that has been propagated that Hinduism historically had been associated with caste system, cow worship, poverty, dirtiness etc.
The confusion emanates from India itself who never differentiated between Hinduism as a civilization and Hinduism as a religion. Rigid caste system was part of Hindu civilization just like in Egyptian, Chinese, Maya etc. Caste system was not practiced through out India and it varied a lot depending on region of subcontinent.
Conclusion is Yoga and Meditation are associated mainly with Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism and disassociating them is an attack on those religion. Popular Yoga comes from Hinduism and it is a religious practice. Performing Surya Namaskar (bowing to Sun God) has no relation with Abrahamic Religions. Shiva Shakti is the god/goddess of Tantra yoga. Many Hindus worship Sage Patanjali as God. Yoga support and give authority to agnostic views of Vedas. The view that I believe and practice in everything that Hinduism has to offer from their dances to music to meditation to Ayurveda to literature to yoga but I should not be called as Hindu has to go away.